Disappearing Hate

How many deconverts of religion have turned to divisive, discriminatory speech and hate groups? How many are condemning alternate lifestyles and supporting religious laws to ban women’s rights? How many choose to impose their lack of belief on others by going door to door, or casting stones at immorality, while practicing immoralities. None. That’s because when people leave religion, and think on their own accord, sometimes for the first time in their life, they speak in support of freedom and fairness and equality to all. That is who I believe people really are. It is the churches and their stiff indoctrinations that separates, setting themselves above others with “inspired” lines drawn in the sand of divisiveness. I know some of us struggle to make all the changes at once, but by and by, love is found. Fairness is found. Equality and acceptance are found. And for many, it is the first time in their lives they have thought their own thought, said their own words, speak what they have learned, and not what they have been told. And it is good. Very good.

Belief and faith are strange ills. They are contrary to open dialog and contrary to real problem solving. They are driven by fear and supported by groups such as ADF and others. The propaganda from the pulpits is a powerful sermon from gods anointed, but the thoughts people have and the words they speak are not theirs. They are the churches.

I am very optimistic about the future, as I know that the hearts of the people are good. Their minds have been sealed off by faith, but the real person inside is good, and when they finally leave religion behind, like waking from a long stuporous dream, 100% of them return to true love and equality. That’s a pretty impressive number to have hope in.

“Early Storm Sky”

Author: jimoeba

Alternatives to big box religions and dogmas

53 thoughts on “Disappearing Hate”

  1. Interesting post Jim. It has me thinking about the difference between being an atheist and an anti-theist. What are your thoughts on this. Should we do more than simply push back against theist attempts to force their religion on others and move to a more proactive / offensive mode against religions? Hugs

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    1. Not sure you can separate the two. It is the monotheism in today’s world that appears to be the problem. On the big picture though, how many immortal gods are dead now? How long do we have to play this game of cat and mouse, bickering about who’s right or wrong? If there is theism, there is churches. Churches breed fear and divisiveness. It is the way things are sold. My hope would be technology or some other way, will eventually make it very hard to believe in god. Eventually we will solve our own problems. That flies in the face of religion because they thrive on divisiveness and fear. I think it all should go, but maybe someone else has a different take.

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      1. Oh I agree with you. I also tend towards a proactive anti-theist stance. Yet I have many who say that we should live and let live, let the theist hold their beliefs with no attempt to point out errors. I feel this is not realistic because it is the theist attempt to spread their faith into all areas of others lives using even the government to enforce their religious views. As the theist do not contain their religious views to themselves we must provide alternative in both ways of living and information that counters their myths they believe in. Hugs

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        1. And it would be nice to see less time wasted on this. Years and years of study could be focused on progress in so many areas. I am certain we have lost some of the best minds to religious study. That inbred ability religion promotes to take the low road and wait for god to fix it, or to rescue us.

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    1. What? Finally! Lol. I know Ben, I thought of your story as well as some others while writing this. It wasn’t me, but it was hard to tell the difference at the time.

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      1. Yup. It’s true. I finally came around. I just figured since I had some time to kill waiting for God to show up, I’d let go of all my judgement, disgust, self-righteousness and bigotry. I know it’s an adjustment, but I’ll manage. Funny thing is, most of those things I let go of, I never felt right about anyway. It’s like someone pushed those thoughts into my brain and I wasn’t strong enough to push them out. But deep down I knew that eventually they had to go. Thoughts like those in your head are like having strangers in your house. They don’t belong there and they are potentially dangerous.

        You’re right about those who have let go of religion. We’re not out pushing anything on anyone. I don’t go door to door asking people if they want to talk about…um…well, nothing I suppose. Why would anyone need to go to door to door anyway? What’s behind those doors is nobody’s business but the people who live there.

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  3. Agree, agree, agree…but I’m not sure there is much we can do.

    Unfortunately , I read of a rise in far right religion in S. America and parts of Asia..maybe Africa too. And I read moderate religion is on the way out, but the more extreme is growing, as are hate groups, which are closely related.

    Religion does control by fear for sure, but I think there is an element to mankind that simply likes to hate and feel superior and religion gives them the vehicle.

    Time , social media and technology may be our friend, but it may occur after our lifetimes.

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    1. Maybe Mary, but I don’t think division is normal. As you can see, the real tolerance and acceptance comes after, or without religion. I am optimistic as always about the nature of people. Religion has done its damage, and I don’t think people know who they really are until they have some time alone without someone coaching up walls of fear.

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  4. It’s hard to argue with righteous hate. They have their holy armor and are armed with the truth. They are ready to do battle with the evil doers and feel great about it.

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    1. That is true, but without the churches influence people will become what they truly are, which is what we see when people leave faith. I am hopeful as always, but as long as they cling to religion, the real them never shines through. 100% as well. As you have been such a great example of loving everyone, i wish I had followed your lead a little sooner. But happy it happened nonetheless.

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      1. Don’t be hard on yourself. It’s difficult to go against the current when children are born into religions and it’s a way of life. Primary school gently teaching children to be warriors and warning them of hell and darkness. Obey your parents and church leaders or else. That kind of mental trauma that scars a person from early on and makes them easier to manipulate.
        I tried to sit and listen to Sunday school teachers, absorb what was being taught at activities I attended. I smelled bullshit very early on. I became self aware at age 5 and made a commitment to never follow a rule or people that I deemed crazy. If God is love and light, then why would he hate so many of us? Anyhow, you know my story and I’m glad you slipped off your priesthood robe you sexy beast!

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  5. Most of the comments here state what I would also say. However, I can share this…

    We definitely still have those ancient hardwired genetics from our primate ancestors. They certainly had many territorial tendencies, hyper-protection of food & resources, pack-mentalities, and Alpha-males fighting over females (harems) for procreation. Will we EVER remove those sorts of genomes? 🤔

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    1. I think we already are able to overcome those genomes. We’re just not allowed to. The web and the ability to connect with our interests is unprecedented, and the need to protect what is ours, is significantly diminished by overwhelming availability. There is nothing to infringe our chosen lifestyles but religion. The last holdout to peaceful existence. Of course the closed systems may remain for a time, but only until everyone realizes they can have what they need and want without hiding from the religious traditions that have infiltrated us all. That is why we need “by invitation” web sites and discretionary private lives is due to religious infiltration and judgements of our culture, which indoctrinates and assigns “right and wrong” behaviors of personal choice based on bigoted religious stance. Am I right, or am I missing a key point here?

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      1. Raaaaaawwwwwwwrrrrrrr!!!!!! 🤬 I had a long paragraph typed out and my damn touchpad — which Dell will not allow me to disable — WIPED OUT EVERYTHING I typed!!!! 😩

        Ugh, lemme try and remember everything I typed… (pouting heavily)

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      2. 2nd attempt…

        No, I think you correctly covered the main points Jim. 🙂

        I’m just not so sure that ancient and deeply embedded genomes and neural programming over 10,000 – 200,000 years (the start of religion) can significantly change over 2-3 generations. It needs to be more radical. Look how long it has taken just for the church and religious dogma you speak of to FINALLY be scientifically questioned and undermined by very sound proven methods! The last 100 – 150 years? Yet, is that going to be quick enough? One or two centuries!? 😮

        Given the poor health that our planet Earth is currently in — and it does not look as if it will be reversed anytime soon — we humans do not have 10,000 years or 6-8 generations(?) to go over the tipping point or avoid extinction!!! We’ve wasted so SO MANY millenia religiously convincing ourselves we are powerless, we are slaves/puppets to angry gods or a god and this ticking-time-bomb of a “harsh, doomed existence” is essentially pointless to reverse or improve! WTF!? It needs to somehow happen much faster than 500 – 1,000 years… pfffft, much less 10,000 years! At the rate we are currently dividing each other, killing each other and this planet, IMO the neural genome-changes must start immediately.

        One of the very FIRST human paradigms that MUST GO is the self-righteous belief/myth that Monism exists (Abrahamic religions). Second, that we as a species can never behave in Eusocial-Superorganism modes. Hence, any paradigm that teaches segregation or divisiveness or Monism… simply will not work! Jim, you and I know exactly what that means, but does everyone else?

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        1. We’ll just keep at it I guess. I like to think that smaller cases like Iran might be reversible again globally. The leaders we choose certainly matter, but I am just hopeful. We write according to our intellect, in hopes of touching one or two key people that can inspire changes. You never know, it may come from a perceived enemy, like what Ron mentioned yesterday about Egypt. That kind of precedent must be noticed around the world and cause concern, opening the floodgates for change. You never know. Great comment, although depressing and possibly accurate. It is those type of heartfelt words that need to be out there. We are small, but looking at small, Buckminster Fuller said in his old age-” I AM NOW CLOSE TO 88 and I am confident that the only thing important about me is that I am an average healthy human. I am also a living case history of a thoroughly documented, half-century, search-and-research project designed to discover what, if anything, an unknown, moneyless individual, with a dependent wife and newborn child, might be able to do effectively on behalf of all humanity that could not be accomplished by great nations, great religions or private enterprise, no matter how rich or powerfully armed”.

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          1. See! Buckminster Fuller totally understands Eusociality-Superorganism behaviors… EVEN IN his struggling, tenous familial condition. We need a LOT MORE Buckminster Fullers!!! ❤

            P.S. his words are a bit reminiscent of humanity returning to forms of City-states rather than the destructive, ineffective nation-states. 😉

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            1. I had to dig that one out of the old memory file. In so much of my prior research in days gone by, his name would come up in the most unlikely places. What a gem, and purely wise.

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        2. You said it perfectly, professor. Unfortunately I don’t feel the hope that Jim does. People aren’t getting smarter or better educated or becoming enlightened that we are all in this together. Wars, divisiveness and hatred seems to be never ending.😢

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          2. Well Mary, there are stubborn, fear-ridden donkeys with their antiquated immutable beliefs, and then there are wild mustangs that courageously push the envelope, never stop exploring, asking, and testing everything. There are mopey, fear-ridden Cormorants with their tiny useless wings, and then there are Eagles that soar beautifully up high to new places!

            I hope that enough of the “Wild Mustangs” and “Soaring Eagles” survive all the wars, divisiveness, and hatred, and in the end… prevail! 😉

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    2. Remove those genomes?

      Why would you want to?

      Mongol Warlord: Conan! What is best in life?

      Conan: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of the women.

      Mongol Warlord: That is good.

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      1. Always a pleasure Ron. I would have to know the context of the time of the video, and know what religion spawned the behavior this is from. I would be surprised if this was not backed by a dogma, but I could be wrong. ? I know there were sorcerers and cults in the fiction. But an idea usually is the beginning of anything.

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          2. Here’s a quick “The Mongols were highly tolerant of most religions during the early Mongol Empire, but the main religion of all time was Shamanism. At the time of Genghis Khan in the 13th century, virtually every religion had found converts, from Buddhism to Eastern Christianity and Manichaeanism to Islam.

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            1. True. But which came first: the desire for control over others, or the means by which to justify it? I tend to agree with maryplumbago that religion serves as a handy vehicle to enforce authoritarian rule over others.

              As such, I don’t share your optimism that the human condition would improve significantly with the elimination of religion. Most likely, other ideologies would take its place.

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            2. Thanks for that Ron. I too have a deep concern, I am just hopeful we can beat the clock on this before it’s too late. Because religion is so toxic, it HAS to go. I’ll take my chances with any other idea than religion, which has proven to lead us to where we are now. They’ve had their due and have failed miserably. What have we to lose any other way? Of course there will always be power hungry assholes, but this has already failed. What’s the other options my friend? You have anything?

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            3. And Ron, I agree that the bad guys probably came first, but to further my point, correct me if I’m off here, but the bad guys devise a system to get a little more peaceful compliance, in which the bad guys follow none of the rules they set forth. Religion must go, and with drop the compliant behavior, and that maybe people will start thinking for themselves and stop appeasing the crap that’s dished our way. Way? Or too big at this point?

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            4. Well, my observations indicate there are three distinct groups of people: the leaders, the followers and the misfits. And for better or worse, the first two prefer a precarious symbiotic relationship over unfettered independence. That’s why I think the demise of religion will just lead people to seek out an equally bad replacement. The issues might change, but the underlying power struggles will remain intact.

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      2. Hahaha… but just “lamentations”? Surely there is more on the women, much more! 👹🤔

        Amazon Warrior: What is the fastest way to a Mongol/Neanderthal man’s heart?

        Diana of Themiscyra: Through his chest with a sharp knife and a hard twist. 🗡

        Amazon Warrior: Oooo, that IS good. That is best in life.

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  8. I am very optimistic about the future, as I know that the hearts of the people are good. Their minds have been sealed off by faith, but the real person inside is good, and when they finally leave religion behind, like waking from a long stuporous dream, 100% of them return to true love and equality. That’s a pretty impressive number to have hope in. ~ Jim

    Jim,

    So they have good hearts, what about their minds? I’m not so optimistic that peeling away the religious faith necessarily reveals a “good” person underneath. I guess I’d ask, what is meant by “good?” Even if we strip away faith as we know it now, I tend to see humanity always creating/maintaining their own moral tribes.

    In a way, the idea of people returning to true love and equality to me sounds in and of itself like a new religion/faith/moral tribe. Someone/groups are going to formulate just exactly what “true love” and “equality” are, while others will determine their own definitions and codes of love and equality.

    Maybe pockets of humanity here and there will sort out the shit but globally? I can’t see it.

    Zoe P. (Pessimistic) Downer ❤

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  9. Is the nature of the beast revolving around belief?
    The human mind influencing the heart. Once we set our minds to loyalty and devotion, we might just be subjecting ourselves to excuses that feel like the right thing to do. Life experiences… could this evolve to a mini dictator attitude? Is it the greater good for my kind? Or really just a close minded approach to life as I know it?
    Generalized thoughts seem to point to stereotypes and herding people into categories when it might just possibly be lack of a big picture.
    There’s always a bigger picture than a perceived thought of what seems like my big picture. My big picture can only be painted by my life experiences.
    Keeping an open mind and heart allows adaptation.

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    1. Great points to think about. It would be a great thesis wouldn’t it? My observation is limited to my view obviously, but to know why? That would settle it for me. And great first line “Is the nature of the beast revolving around belief? I might have to steal that

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      1. I love you’re posts and insight.
        I get wrapped up wondering why people tick the way they do.
        It must be hard to prove that religion is nature rather than nurture.

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  10. Atheism does not necessarily/automatically guarantee a more loving understandable individual.
    I’ll bet dollars to donuts there are atheists that are full on anti-abortion, misogynistic, against same sex marriage eat meat and support Manchester United.

    De-conversion does help in this regard and at least removes one aspect that might induce a person from being all the things above – because it is written in the bible and my Pastor says so, so there!
    But there is simply no hope for UTD supporters , theist or otherwise.

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    1. Fútbol can tell a lot about a person. I used to know 2 MU fans, and that was enough. But, the difference here maybe, is everyone already does what they want more or less anyway. Pretending to be good Christians has an effect on the person. Pretending because of pressure. That carries over to places it doesn’t belong. Their whole life is lock-step, and I believe, at this point, when the religion is no longer a consideration, people change for the better from the roots, all the way to the tops. All I report is my observations, I don’t see the whole picture obviously, but when religion is gone, I also think we’ll have a whole new dependency culture of about 35% that will always attach to something. That has born out in multiple studies. But someday the children will fix what religion has done to the mind, or we will be extinct. I re-upped my meatless ways again. The wife and I are making it work 100%.

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