When Did the God Legend Get So Inconceivable ?

Over my lifetime the size and scope of god has grown to unimaginable proportions. Here we explore why god has gotten so big in the minds of believers.

When did god evolve to this? I don’t remember it being this unimaginable back in the 70’s and 80’s. Why is their god so incomprehensible that a mere human cannot even imagine him? Is he incomprehensible or non-existent? Theists often end arguments by saying “God cannot be fathomed by mere humans.”

This is the Ad Hoc Argument that theists eventually provide if the discussion goes on long enough.  My god is mysterious and his ways and knowledge are to much for us to understand.  How arrogant we are to demand that god prove himself.

If a god is incomprehensible then it is of no value to us on a daily basis. If it is of no value then it’s existent is irrelevant.  If it’s existence is irrelevant then what kind of god is it?

Christians have run out of explanations. So much so they tap out with “god is unfathomable”, but the red writing in the Bible says otherwise.

“Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?” John‬ ‭14:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.” John‬ ‭14:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.” John‬ ‭5:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So he has a shape and he resembles his son. Go ahead with the metaphorical explanations, but I think Christian apologetic thinking has put their “personal” god out of argumental reach for either side. Am I the only one that has noticed this? According to the scripture it isn’t so, and I’m quite sure based on these verses I could comprehend him—if he was real. It is apparent Christianity is on the fringes of total deism with a tiny bit of jesus and a whole lot of denial. At least deism is a stepping stone to atheism.

Author: jimoeba

Alternatives to big box religions and dogmas

41 thoughts on “When Did the God Legend Get So Inconceivable ?”

  1. Jim, some things you aren’t meant to know “this side of Heaven.” At least that’s what I was told back in church when I had questions. Unfortunately, since you don’t believe in the unbelievable, you have shown lack of faith and will not see the other side of Heaven. You just need to have blind faith. Is that too much to ask?

    Of course we cannot fathom who God is. The stories about him are constantly changing to fit the needs of those who defend the faith and there is absolutely no proof of his existence. But does that mean we can’t still pretend to believe and then condemn those who don’t?

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    1. I would like to see the magician behind the curtain, and watch what happens. Is Raiders of the lost ark style of annihilation what they think they’ll see or what?

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      1. Good movie. Not so good belief system. I wouldn’t put it past them though.

        It’s very confusing how on one hand we are told God wants an intimate, personal relationship with us and on the other that we cannot fathom God and we are so unworthy that we cannot even look upon his face. We cannot see him or hear him. We have no evidence he is even there. We are told he is too great for us mere humans to comprehend. Yet when we deny he exists or say we do not understand, we are told we are “without excuse” for doubting. Which is it?

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    2. ‘ Then to the rolling heaven itself I cried ,
      Asking , ” What Lamp had Destiny to guide
      Her little children stumbling in the Dark ?”
      And — ” A blind understanding ! ” heaven replied.

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  2. And let’s not forget, according to the book, Yhwh can write, in human words that can be read

    Suddenly the fingers of a human hand appeared and wrote on the plaster of the wall, near the lampstand in the royal palace. The king watched the hand as it wrote. — Daniel 5:5

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    1. No no!! Mel says that’s metaphorical. Same with Jacobs wrestle! If any of it were true it would matter. It just bugs me they don’t believe the very scripture they claim to believe.

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      1. “No no!! Mel says that’s metaphorical”
        That’s my problem with many Christians they chose what they want to believe from the bible and what not
        If you decide by yourself that some parts are metaphor and not to be taken literally why then should I not assume that the whole gospels and the whole Jesus myths are not metaphor and should not be taken literally

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    3. I now start wondering why he didn’t use his own hands to write the bible rather than leaving it to fallible mortals which had to be literally voted to be his words

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    4. ” The Moving Finger writes; and ,
      having writ ,
      Moves on : nor all they Piety
      nor Wit
      Shall lure it back to cancel
      half a line ,
      Nor all they Tears wash out a
      Word of it. ‘

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  5. Definitely unbelief opens the door, but then one asks: “With what do I replace it?” The answer to that is to walk through the door, and discover it without preconceived ideas. When that door opened for me I was in a state of change to a certain point, and I walked into a box described by Tibetan Buddhism, which I was told was not so much of a religion, but rather a pholosophy of life. I accepted this, because it was at first so different from monotheism. And I certainly learned from Buddhism, and advanced my consciousness by an incredible amount, such that I could no longer recognise myself in christian terms. But the more I advanced, the more cracks I could see in the walls, and the more I could see that there was yet at least one more world to walk into. And just as my teacher was ready to think about training me to take over for him, I opened the next door, and I walked though that one too. This time the room seems to be without walls, but that could just mean I have not fully explored it yet. Right now I am in a place where I can peek behind the veil of death, but I can but see just a glimpse of what is there. And, in my atheistic view, there is more there, for I have glimpsed it, and I have seen “something.”
    For now, I too must go on faith, but I hope not the blind faith of theism. But then Abraham might have said the same thing after talking to a burning bush. Jesus may have said the same thing after arising from the cross. Mohammed might have said something similar. John Smith did say something very similar. But all of them tied their thoughts to what they had been taught, that a monotheistic god did exist. I already know that no superbeing of any kind can or does xist. But I know that life exists, and it is to life that I tie all my thoughts. My language controls my vision.
    But after I die, I will not have my language to control me. I will not have my vision to influence me. I will not have my perception to help me understand what I experience. And that is where I want to go next, because I imagine only a bit of it, and there is no area I CAN SEE to box me in… I hope…
    IMO.

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    1. Regardless it seems your search provides meaning to you. I am curious about many things, but since deconversion I have found peace in who I am. I do not fear death, nor do I dwell on the purpose or meaning of life. I have found contentment in exploring the life I have. Atheism for me is just a side job, calling out the fallacies of religion. I don’t fret to much about it but it’s fun.

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      1. Aha, you are actually what I call an “anti-theist” as opposed to an “atheist.” This is not meant to be a derogatory term, but sometimes comes out like one, depending on the person I am naming thus.
        My search does provide meaning to me, because in my opinion life does have purpose, as I may have mentioned the other day in response to the principles of mormonism you related. Amazingly enough, jainists and buddhists have a similar purpose to life, though they also have a reward for making it past the physical plan, and I presume mormonism does too, at its end. I Dan see no end from where I stand here on earth, nor do I perceive of any reward for going on to the next plane, other than that of attaining a next plane. Heaven, hell, psradise, nirvana, or moksha, those are al rewards, or punishments, for being a perfect person. On our plane of existence, I see no possibility of perfection, though I do not see a reason to stop striving to attain perfecting.
        Meanwhile, I see no real need for praise or punishment in this world either. Punishment is for the punisher, to make them feel stronger, more powerful, and superior to the punishes, or perceived wrong-doer.
        However, I am happy to hear you are happy where you are (as am i). Accepting your situation, providing you are not suffering in it, is one of the higher goals in life.
        But when it comes I personally try to judge all my actions, and words by, and it happens to coincide with an old hippie motto: Be whoever you want to be, do whatever you want to do, as long as you don’t hurt anyone or anything in the process.
        Peace be with you.

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        2. I do not see atheist and anti-theist as opposed to one another. Some of us are more anti-theist and some less, but all are atheists. One seems more belief-centered and the other is more behavior-focused. My strong belief in the separation of church and state may make me appear anti-theist (and maybe I am) to a believer, but that is more about my freedom than my anti-views of someone’s religion.

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          1. Exactly. I am an anti-theist but with respect of individual rights. I love everyone but I do enjoy calling out the obvious flaws of religion. The absolute opposite of what they tell you, is what we observe every day about faith, which is nothing more than emotional manipulation.

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          2. Ah, did I say they were opposed to each other? I see them more as stages of awareness, myself. Often new atheists love to fight with theists, trying to hurt them to repay the hurts they felt while still theists. (It is regrettable, but often the inspiration for atheism is the pain of theism.) And so people strike out. I did..
            But generally at some point there is less satisfaction received from backlashing, and a person starts to explore what their new-found atheism actually means to them. At least, that is the experience I went through. As did a few others I know. Not believing there are gods is not an end to itself, but only a beginning, IMO. Pain opens the door, and maybe closes the door behind one, but it is understanding that locks the door. And once the door is locked, then satisfaction comes from exploring the new box, and looking to see if there is a way out of that. From my observations, there are actually many doors leading out of the first box of atheism. Some open those doors to see what is there, while others are happy just to rest there for a while…

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            1. My conclusion: there are no gods. Theists need to keep their religion out of my life. Most other issues are negotiable. Yes, “as opposed to” was what I think I read.

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          3. Looking back, i did say i saw them as opposed to each other, with the key distinguisher that it was me who saw it that way. I apologize, but i tend to get very lazy in my writing, because i get tired of saying IMO, or of repeating IMO so often that it becomes meaningless. To new readers, and/or casual readers, it can definitely seem that i am saying things as Truth, rather than relative truth. I don’t believe in Truth, so i sometimes take it for granted everyone knows i am talking relative truth.
            But as i also said, i am not out to insult anyone, or get their hackles up. I am merely trying yo express my viewpoint on a given subject (which would be even easier if i knew how to type with ten digits!) So, if i upset you in any way, i do apologize. Meanwhile, i do fully believe what i am meaning to say.

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            2. I was not offended in any way. I have no idea about Jim. I am simply pointing out that some atheists say they are not anti-theist and others say they are. The only folks I know of who do “hairsplitting” with the word atheist call themselves agnostics.

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            3. I can tell you there are a lot of those in the world, and I don’t mean agnostics. I myself am a spiritual atheist. I believe in life after (earthly) death. That is my choice. But plenty of self-styled atheists tell me I am no atheist at all. (I call them “self-styled” only because atheism is a state of mind, and there is a different definition of atheism for every person who believes themself to be an atheist, IMO. There is no actual community of atheists (not as a religious group can be said to be a community), there are no laws, and there are no rules. But those that try to make or assume there are laws, and rules, I think they are closer to being agnostics. That is my view.
              Meanwhile, “I don’t believe in gods, or super-know-it-all beings” is good enough for me.

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            1. Sorry mate. It resembled that period between life and death. I know it is regarding sleep, but seemed very similar as a point of reference

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            2. No problem. I was just wondring. I wss unable to find any similariyy, but that is just me.

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  6. Our concept of “god” has had to change over time as our knowledge of the natural world improved and we began to realize that things we had attributed to some supernatural origin were simply part of nature after all. So the gods of Rome and Greece who controlled storms and oceans, etc. had to give way as we discovered what weather really was. So the concept of god became an ever moving target trying to dodge the arrow of increasing knowledge. Believers had to scramble to develop a god who was more nebulous, more esoteric and less subject to human investigation. The concept of god moved from beings who controlled the natural world, to a being who controlled some kind of spiritual realm which was impossible for mere human beings to investigate. This neatly removed god from any kind of human examination. A neat trick, really. When one points out the illogic of religion, all the apologists have to do is claim we can’t understand the nature of god because he lies outside of human understanding.

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  7. God(s) used to stay on top of the mountain, we climbed the mountain and saw no god. We were then told god relocated to the sky, we learnt how to fly and saw no god in the sky, god now stays above the sky. We traveled to space, no god here. Now god is outside space-time and heaven is not in this realm( despite the bible saying the opposite)

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  8. Why has God — Abrahamic Gods, etc. — reached this popularity? I have one all encompassing answer:

    Education.

    http://www.oecd.org/education/education-at-a-glance-19991487.htm

    Notice the demographics of educational standards and obtainments by their citizens around the world. The correlational patterns reveal powerful explanations, variables, and factors for those pockets, regions, and nations of the world RELATIVE to their religious beliefs/cultures. For example, it has been known for some time that Islam will soon eclipse Christianity as the world’s BIGGEST religion. Why? Culture. Women’s status as baby-manufacturers and the vast majority of those Muslim populations are living in 3rd-world or 2.5-world 😉 countries… i.e. poor, tunnel-visioned, maybe 9th grade level educations except for the few powerful families.

    That’s how a ficticious entity REMAINS — in illiterate masses. For 1st world nations the biggest issue, IMO… is Agnotology.

    Wonderful post Jim! 👍

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  9. Shame on you, Jim, for using the neuter personal pronoun to refer to almighty god!!! And a lower case “g: to boot! Everybody KNOWS that God is a man! (sarcasm alert for all the lurkers out there who don’t have the capacity to recognize otherwise).

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