Is it something I said?

Me—(Your) Religion has no proof for the existence of god after 2000 years. Can I ask you what facts you have to present? How do you know you’re right? I know enough about neurology and the entire conversion process to know how easily humans are influenced by playing on basic psychology. It’s quite obvious where the god resides. He’s right in your head.

BeaconApologetics—Proof? What kind of proof would convince you? Are you are asking for something that can be seen? Are you looking for something that can be weighed? What kind of evidence would suit you? If you have decided what evidence is sufficient, what is it? I believe you need to find a good Gospel preaching Church in your area and address these questions to the Pastor there. I have many evidences that I have experienced in my life that you would likely blow off as delusional. What evidence would work so that YOU would believe in God? Please do not insult me as I have not insulted you, statements such as “It’s. quite obvious where the god resides. He’s right in your head” does not work for me or anyone else.

He does hold comments until he’s ready to respond. My opinion is defamatory, while his completely fact-less opinions are to be taken at their presup I suppose.

Author: jimoeba

Alternatives to big box religions and dogmas

71 thoughts on “Is it something I said?”

  1. Here’s another tactic many apologists use to twist questions like yours around and not answer them. “Well, what evidence do YOU have that my idea of my particular god ISN’T real? Hahahahahaha! Gotcha there, ya’ wise ass ya’.” Then when you mention it isn’t truly possible to “prove” a negative and the burden of proof lies with the person making the definitive, positive claim that the THEIR particular god with THEIR particular take on it does exist, they say, “Hahahahahaha! Then you admit my particular take on my particular god MUST be real! Hahahahahahaha!!! Mic drop a-hole! you’re outta here!” Blithering doo-doo heads, I tellz ya’!

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        1. Why thank you. Initially I agreed with him as he was calling out the flat earthers but I commented a little further. I’ve been saving these for once a month. Other than that it’s too much frustration. Ark has more endurance than the rest of us combined. Lol

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            3. He’s currently holding my comment about miracles, healthy athletes healing and my experience as a medic. The doctor saying miracle has led him to disbelieve anything secular. Does that make any sense?

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    1. I sent one link to a prior post. He allowed the comment but not the link. You can try. He’ll see it but I doubt he’ll allow it. His faith is fragile.

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      1. Alright then, I was also prepared for that level of moderation. This is what I am going to submit to him, if he allows it. It’s from my Why Christianity Will Always Fail page. 😉

        ——————————————————–

        Whether the Earth is flat or not, or whether the argument originated in the European Medieval Church or not is really a time-wasting sideshow today. In the end, the debate is only good for cerebral calisthenics and comedic entertainment. There are much more important explorations to be had by modern humanity.

        There are perhaps 30-50 compelling arguments (disproofs) against the veracity of theism, Hellenistic Christology (today’s version of Christianity), and the 4th-century CE canonical New Testament. But there is not enough time to cover them all adequately here on one blog’s comment-section, particularly if the comments are moderated or deleted due to the owner’s presupposed notions and personal bias.

        That said, here are two of those convincing arguments against Christianity/Christology:

        #1 — Severe Lack of Independent Sources

        There are at least 41 known Pagan and Jewish authors/historians during Jesus’ lifetime or within less-than 100 years of his life that aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author (Josephus), and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers (Pliny the Younger & Suetonius), there is no mention of a Jesus Christ. Nor within a century of Jesus’ life do any of these authors/historians make any mention of the later disciples or apostles. Those 41 are:

        [a full list (above) of these ancient authors/historians can easily be provided should Mr. Mason allow it] <<< what I'm posting on his blog

        For someone so universally important to all of humanity and possessiong "Son of God" of elite wisdom and supernatural powers, starting from c. 4 BCE (birth) to 30-33 CE (execution) thru at least 80-100 CE, and supposedly talked about all over Judea and Syro-Palestine(?) by everyone feverish for the saving, liberating Jewish (or Gentile) Messiah, how did this man and his apparent activities completely avoid ALL of just these 41 authors/historians!? Answer: it wasn't possible. Hence, he wasn't who Hellenistic Church Fathers retro-actively claimed he was 2-4 centuries later.

        #2 — Why God’s Literal Hiding?

        This question/argument was proposed by Dr. Theodore Drange in his book “Nonbelief & Evil: Two Arguments for the nonexistence of God.” Basically it says:

        …there is no good argument or evidence for God’s existence. […]

        Even theists sometimes say such things as “God is hidden” or “the world is ambivalent or ambiguous (as between being governed by God or being totally natural).” Whether such a statement is made in terms of “hiddenness” or “ambivalence” or “ambiguity,” it runs counter to Saint Paul’s (General-revelation) idea, expressed in Rom. 1:20, that “God’s invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made.” So if it is a statement made by Christian writers at all, they would not be Calvinists or evangelical Christians, but rather Christians of a more liberal persuasion.

        Drange goes on to explain why arguing from a position of non-belief is much more reasonable and sound than from a position of lacking evidence (or LEA):

        Argument from Nonbelief:

        (A) Probably, if God were to exist, then there would not be many nonbelievers in the world.
        (B) But there are many nonbelievers in the world.
        (C) Therefore, probably God does not exist.

        The term “nonbelievers” as it appears here can be taken in various ways. Let us take it to refer to nontheists. Since that class includes not only atheists and agnostics but also deists, pantheists, Buddhists, Hindus, and countless other individuals throughout our planet who do not believe in a single Supreme Being, it actually contains close to half the earth’s population… a well-established empirical truth, given a suitable definition for the term “nonbelievers.”

        And again, these are just two strong arguments out of 30-50+ that unveil theism’s, Hellenistic Christology’s (today’s version of Christianity), and its 4th-century CE canonical New Testament as highly unreliable, problematic, and in many cases failures for Christendom. I will also remind readers that my comment here is extremely abbreviated — this discussion or debate belongs into a much more conducive format/forum than a blog such as this one.

        Thanks in advance Mr. Mason for allowing my comment here, if you indeed do/have. Have a good weekend sir.
        ——————————————————–

        Let’s hope he allows it Jim. 😈

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            1. I think i know how he feels. Any waivering at this point, will disappoint his mother and all those that have rallied around his Miracle conversion. Looking outside now would weigh pretty heavy.

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            3. He responded to me. He basically read only the first paragraph then stopped. Hahahaha! 😄 He invited me to read more of his blog-posts. HAH!!! Right. 🙄 My reply back to him today; it’s in Moderation of course.

              ———————————————
              Thank you for that invitation Mr. Mason. The other day I did indeed “explore” your blog and thoroughly explored it this morning. I think you misread and misinterpreted what I wrote and meant by explore. Let me clarify, if I may.

              Because of my personality I am passionate about life, philanthropy, laughing, and ALWAYS learning. All of those experiences have been, are, and will always be changing. Therefore, I am constantly curious and asking questions about everything and from/to everyone to learn, learn, learn. This goes for just about all possible subjects, not just one or not just defending an ancient antiquated religion. I am very interested in a number of subjects. As I browsed your blog and blog-posts, your blog’s three(?) categories (Frank Turek, Richard Dawkins, Savation (Salvation???), and Uncategorized), as I browsed/read your About page, and then your posts going back to mid-2013 (didn’t make it to Jan 2012 😉 ) it’s all ONE subject: the defense of your “faith.”

              Since I get excited about many things in life (music, dancing, sports, all things science to name only 4) and a wide plethora of cultures and people — all of them on Earth if that were possible in a lifetime! — you can imagine my disappointment when I did actually do what you suggest or invited me to do. You see Mr. Mason, I’ve already done everything you write about here on your blog. I’ve already experienced thoroughly everything you’ve been through and now going through. Did it extensively for 11 – 25+ years, including worship, full-time ministries, seminary, apologetics, and missions tours on 4 of the 6 inhabitable continents. I do not need to relive it all again because the Christian “God’s” Word never changes (Isaiah 40:6-8) and that Word and Holy Spirit is supported by, confirmed or denied, by Scriptures, i.e. today’s popular bibles of the 4th-century Hellenistic canon. None of those canonical Scriptures have changed since the 4th-century CE… despite the fact that Chrstianity/Christology has morphed into multiple versions and some 400 – 2,500 different denominations. The origins and adolescence of Christianity is more bizarre (let alone unknown today) and convoluted by at least 3-4 major 1st-century cultures clashing that is NEVER discussed or divulged in today’s churches or seminaries. It’s crazy. LOL

              Hence, me alluding to the/your religion’s disunity is only one demonstration out of MANY problems and failures based upon previous problems and failures that go back to at least Second Temple Judaism/Messianism.

              Conclusion? I appreciate your invitation Mr. Mason, but I will pass. I have moved way beyond that life and I am now living the best life I could’ve ever imagined free and liberated to be an important part of humanity on this remarkable existence on Earth with a spectacular, exciting future ahead!!!

              Btw, I will extend an invitation to you as well to visit and immerse yourself in my blog. I have multiple subjects and categories I write about and discuss with fellow humans. I suggest starting with and going thru “My Library” tab on my main menu and my About page; just for starters.

              Thanks Mr. Mason.
              ———————————————

              Let’s see if he approves it. 🤔

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            4. I’m sure he’s scouring through your stuff right now. You would think as a professional cyclist he would be open to the world and a broad selection of experiences. But, when he accepted jesus he gave himself away. Nothing he believes or says are his own thoughts. He even stated that in so many words. Now that he’s a believer, he believes all of it, and nothing secular. He likes science but steers clear of what might contradict faith. I know. I was there.

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            5. Well, he’s so far continuing the dialogue with me. I hope it continues. He responded to me, again misreading and contorting what I wrote, and I’ve since replied to that again. But he’ll have to approve it out of Moderation again.

              What is it he so scared of with other bloggers!? Is it Ark? 😄😜

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            7. I can understand that. But then again, when you blog about only ONE subject and that subject is very contraversial and polarizing — as Scripture teaches to be “apart” from the world — you are going to attract a LOT of offended and offensive readers! Duh. LOL 😛

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            8. “You see Mr. Mason, I’ve already done everything you write about here on your blog. I’ve already experienced thoroughly everything you’ve been through and now going through. Did it extensively for 11 – 25+ years,”

              Haven’t you noticed that most if not all of the apologists seem to assume we haven’t been there, done that? I wonder if he’ll come back with “well you couldn’t have been a True Christian™.” 😉 😀

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            9. I have run across a few people in the last couple years that want to dip their toe into apologetics, not prepared for the overwhelming return of fact and scholarship many in this “pitiful little band of drunken reprobates” has to offer in way of real answers and analysis. I’m not sure Mr Masons faith is up to the challenge. That’s why the moderation.

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            10. I concur. I read in one of his posts that he believes that we actually do believe in his father god of choice, Yahweh. Gee, where have we heard that before? Lol

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            12. There is a recurring theme to close off outside influence because the truth is damming to faith. If they had anything at all they would do a side by side comparison , but faith only flourishes due to a lack of evidence, not the other way around. I bet you ever had this happen before? Lol.

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            13. Hahaha, well as a former, very serious “Believer” like him and them… I was naive and hadn’t experienced the WEALTH of the world, its diversity, and intelligence/brilliance. I was being told repeatedly that “we” already had it — and for 2,000 years! 😮

              And if you mean happening to me since deconverting by “Believers,” that occurs too often! LOL 😛 Now I follow the one TRUE faith: Sasquatchianity! Cuz he does exist because many people say he does and have seen him and his species! 😉

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            14. It does indeed reveal the tight-fitting (cutting off blood circulation & crunching eyes together) horse-blinders they wear, the consumption (addiction?) into the invisible, and self-absorbtion into their “faith,” church-bubble… it’s near impossible to relate to and realize the world and life is so, SO MUCH BIGGER than their own subjective experiences.

              Yes, I’ve been flippantly accused of being a “false Christian” 😄 even before they knew really anything about me and my background. 🙄 And then very quickly they don’t care to know me in the least. 🤭

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  4. As long as they claim god loves everyone, then makes innocent children suffer, there can be no evidence that there is a god.
    As long as they claim god know every best of the wings of a butterfly, then allows accidents to happen, then there can be no evidence that there is a good.
    As long as they claim god is all-forgiving, then poses two or more god-fearing foes against each other, with both sides or even just one side suffering grievous losses and near-genocides, there can be no evidence that there is a god.
    No matter how strange are god’s ways, demanding people to worship him who is already perfect in all wsys, there can be no evidence that there is a god.
    Believers can apolohize all they want, they can never give evidence that there is a god. Meanwhile, non-believers need no evidence there is no god, their very existence proves there is no god.
    We exist, therefore god does not. Nothing more needs be said.

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  5. Proposition: There is a thing that is responsible for all that can be and will be. The proof of this claim is a book of ambiguous provinces, presuppositional logic and inference/conjecture aka. Apologetics.

    Question: What proof would you require to agree with this proposition?

    Answer: Actionable/repeatable, verifiable, falsifiable evidence. At the very least something tangible other than asserted attributions.

    You’d think that in a population of avowed capitalists, this proposition would cause folks to employ the same skepticism as a with a product being sold.

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  6. “I have many evidences that I have experienced in my life that you would likely blow off as delusional.”

    If he had evidence he wouldn’t have to defend Christianity like he feels the need to do on his blog. The mere fact that faith is required should be a huge red flag. I am reminded of something another deconvert said, and it’s spot on:

    “If an idea can’t stand on its own truthfulness, it has to find another way to survive. And often the way that happens is by the gradual intentional refinement of the hijacking of our emotional architecture. Possibly the most effective, most powerful way a belief could do this would be to devalue or eliminate all other sources of self-affirmation— which Christianity does with devastating efficacy—so that there is no hope, or beauty, or meaning, and more importantly, no integrity of the self without it.

    If a belief can do this to you, you will have almost no chance of being able to critically evaluate its truthfulness. Christianity alters your identity to ensure the survival of itself.”

    Even if he suspects deep down inside that something is amiss, he’s not yet strong enough to acknowledge it. He’s too invested. His whole worldview is faith-based, and to burst that bubble is too much for him to bare. Like you mentioned to another commenter, his faith is fragile. It certainly comes across that way.

    ” “Scientists do not join hands every Sunday and sing “Yes gravity is real! I know gravity is real! I will have faith! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down, down. Amen!” If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about the concept.”

    ― Dan Barker, Godless: How an Evangelical Preacher Became One of America’s Leading Atheists

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    1. Thank you for that. As I mentioned in my comment in hold in his cue, the doctor said he was healed by a miracle and he praises god for it, but the truth is he has faith because of the lack of evidence, not the other way around. I guarantee there is an explanation, but at this point he is afraid to hear what that was.

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      1. I just read his comment about believing that his cultural god saved his life when the doctors didn’t expect him to live. Well, in 1998, I was rushed to the hospital in an ambulance. I was in ICU for a week. On the first day in ICU, the doctors told my parents they didn’t think I’d make it through the night. Well, clearly I did, and it wasn’t a miracle.

        Had he not had medical intervention, he would have likely died. Why does he think his god thought he was more worthy of living than the 17+ children that just died from starvation during the time it took me to write this? He’s so indoctrinated he doesn’t even realize how insensitive he is.

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        1. I know right? God works in mysterious ways—and they’re not dead to him I’ve heard And god may just be teaching those starving children a lesson that we’re just to inept to understand.

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          2. Also, why would his surviving several near-death experiences be such a big deal if what he says in another post is true?

            “All except that when us Christians die, we are with our Savior!”

            Why wouldn’t he welcome the opportunity to hang out with Jesus in heaven?

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            1. you’ve pointed out one of the more glaring hypocrisies of christianity (and a lot of other religions). Why would you seek to prolong your life if you were sure you were “saved” and going to heaven? Wouldn’t you want to die as quickly as possible?

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            2. This is a fact of faith. Faith is only hope to live again. Religion plays a psychological card that every animal and element already possess—That desire to carry on. But in the end they have no more surety of that happening than you or me, and they know it.

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            3. Thought I would note that a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) found that compared to those who reported a lower level of religious support or no religious support, terminal patients who received high religious support from religious communities were about a third as likely to receive end-of-life (EoL) hospice care, over two and half times more likely to receive some form of aggressive — and expensive — EoL service (like being put on a ventilator or pursuing additional chemotherapy), and five times more likely to die in a hospital ICU in their last week of life.

              The study also found that terminal patients who self-reported the highest levels of “religious coping” during their final days were 11 times as likely to receive aggressive EoL treatments and 22 times more likely to die in the ICU compared to those with lower levels of religious coping, leading to unnecessary medical expenses and greater suffering. They were also less likely to have a Living Will.

              This seems to suggest that they experience significant death anxiety. The most devout believers in the U.S. appear to avoid death at any cost.

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        2. when the doctors didn’t expect him to live

          I am pretty sure, he was undergoing medical treatments. I have never heard any doctor say with 100% certainty that your case is impossible, when doctors say you may not survive is more along the lines of
          based on our observation, and the evidence on ground, there is more probability that you wouldn’t make it

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      1. Hi Zoe, I should have posted the source of that first quote to eliminate any confusion. It was by Prplfox from his personal deconversion series on Youtube. The second quote in my comment was from Dan Barker.

        Happy to see you. 💙💜

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  7. Given that there is no way to “prove” something doesn’t exist, the burden of proof is on him. He fails in every regard, so where’s the actual argument? Maybe if he had a session before a Supreme Court Justice, he might understand the concept.

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    1. Interesting he jumped on me over such a reasonable request. “Good morning sir, I’m selling wigs today, one size fits all. Sir—can I see them? No, these wigs are unseeable, but they are very comfortable. Uh, not today, but come back when I can look. Thanks”.

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      1. The religious love to believe in their own teachings solely by faith, yet they don’t apply this same thought process to other religions or things outside of their religion. It’s fascinating how it all works really.

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        2. A theist tends to set a very low bar to validate his or her own religion but sets an impossibly high bar for other religions

          I believe you need to find a good Gospel preaching Church in your area and address these questions to the Pastor there

          Is this the best he could do. If the was any evidence for god, it would be widely known.

          I have many evidences that I have experienced in my life that you would likely blow off as delusional.

          You don’t need to list the “evidence” for me to know that many other religions both past, present and future use the exact same “evidence” to support their god

          What kind of evidence would suit you?

          Substantial evidence, Tangible evidence would do.

          Please do not insult me as I have not insulted you

          Jim i was wondering what the insult was until it occurred to me that the very fact you don’t agree with his religion and you asked him for evidence is an insult

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  9. The layout of white text on black background makes it a very difficult page for me to read, which I always find a shame, and know it puts lots of people off articles and posts, and the comments need to run the other way which is something he can do himself in settings, rather than WP being all-powerful and in charge of everything.

    As ever I enjoy your straightforward discussions with people, Jim, as you manage to keep insults and anger out of it (so far as I have seen! Hahahaha), when often the believers go down that path. I’m going to need to pick your brain on something connected to that in a day or so, so shall be in touch *smiles*

    – Esme of Cloud fame sat with an umbrella up as the rain is with her.

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    1. I’m the same way, Esme. I can’t read more than a paragraph or two with white on black text before my eyes start to get funny and I have to give up. I started to read that fellow’s site and just couldn’t deal with it after a few minutes.

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      1. Maybe it’s intentional? He wants us to see the light through the darkness? That way we can come to jesus with cracks in our corneas and learn another valuable religion lesson no one can comprehend.

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    3. Yes, Esme … isn’t it interesting how Christians, who are supposed to be so full of love for others (via commands from their leader), are the most hateful in their remarks (and often actions) to non-believers. It truly makes one wonder how they justify their actions in the presence of their god.

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  10. Jim made a comment that is, I think, at the root of much of the proselytizing, prejudice and aggressive behavior of the TBs: “This is a fact of faith. Faith is only hope to live again. Religion plays a psychological card that every animal and element already possess—That desire to carry on. But in the end they have no more surety of that happening than you or me, and they know it.” That comment of his points out the root cause of a lot of the abusive behavior of the TBs, I think. They don’t really believe. All of the preaching, attempts at conversion, and aggressive behavior is a result of them desperately attempting to believe that there is something behind this belief system they’ve bought into, while at the same time they have serious doubts about it themselves. If they can get others to buy into that system it helps to alleviate the doubt

    I think at least partly the psychology behind some of this aggressive behavior is similar to that behind the fact that some of the most vicious homophobic jackasses turn out to be gay themselves. It’s a response to fear, to denial, to an inability to accept the facts.

    Hmm, did that make any sense? I should stop trying to write at 6 in the morning before I’ve had my coffee…

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    1. Perfect sense. If you have any more trouble, Mrs gf is allowed one bucket of cold water to your head. That is a great comment. ”Tis true, TB’s have no advantage, but, as we always see with religion, it never, ever, is what they think it is.

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  11. I never understood the urge to prove that Gods or God exist. I have no problem with people not believing in Gods as along as they have no problem with me believing in Gods. I just figure it is a matter of choice. After all, the Monotheistic Gods are reported by their believers to give humans free will to chose. (Or is that a bait and switch going on?)

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    1. That’s a bait and switch! Excellent observation. As soon as this freewill of the faith is realized, they try to take it away. Children, friends, acquaintances all have to have it. By force historically.

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