The Jesus Challenge

The pastor is repeatedly distancing Christianity from the teaching of jesus. His most recent open question is” what teachings of jesus has led to atrocities? While it is obvious that the system of Christianity has led to a love affair with torture and genocide, what specifically did Jesus say to incite such a continuation of wreckage throughout Christian history. I repeatedly tried to make it clear, that intensional or not, unrestrained Christian religion has led to force and violence. Whether this is by design or not is not the point. The point is that it has happened repeatedly through families, villages, towns and countries where the religious have had unfettered control over their peoples. If they knew this would happen, shame on them, if they didn’t, some all-knowing deity. Either way, they knew or they didn’t.

My first answer was to quote “go ye into the world and preach my gospel” and when refused “dust off your feet as a testimony against them” and leave that town. Mel downplayed and ignored the gesture, but Bible commentaries, written by bible scholars are nearly unanimous in the significance if this gesture. “The very dust of a heathen country was unclean, and it defiled by contact. It was regarded like a grave, or like the putrescence of death. If a spot of heathen dust had touched an offering, it must at once be burnt. More than that, if by mischance any heathen dust had been brought into Palestine, it did not and could not mingle with that of ‘the land,’ but remained to the end what it had been – unclean, defiled and defiling everything to which it adhered.” The apostles, therefore, were not only to leave the house or city which should refuse to receive them, “but it was to be considered and treated as if it were heathen, just as in the similar case mentioned in Matthew 18:17. All contact with such must be avoided, all trace of it shaken off”. (Edersheim, “Jewish Social Life in the Days of Christ”). The symbolic act indicated that the apostles and their Lord regarded them not only as unclean, but as entirely responsible for their uncleanness. If he was god, he should have known this was a horrible custom and condemned it as such.

Immediately the gospel of Jesus was set to divide. Missionaries spread through the near east and infiltrated towns to preach. If rejected, a basic “screw you all to hell” was established as an immediate divide among the people, setting one above another in piety, worth, correctness, and virtue. That is from the starting gate a teaching of Jesus Christ that spawned racism and hate. Regardless of the intent, there is the underlying reality independent of what is now believed about it.

The custom on display is a contradiction to love thy neighbor as thyself, and what it really means is love thy neighbor as thyself “if” he agrees to believe in the same god.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, the final book of the New Testament as recorded by John on the Isle of Patmos, has other interesting teaching designed to fail humanity.

Men, acting as agents of red written scripture, assist jesus in fulfilling his prophetic utterance. Here are just two things that when written, must have shortly come to pass, and religious men like to help their god along as quickly as possible.

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

“I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, and have the keys of hell and of death.” Revelation‬ ‭1:18‬ (no doubt)

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.” Revelation‬ ‭2:23‬ ‭

(Italics are mine) Here we go, early into the revelation of Jesus Christ, sanctioned by true believers to sit back and wonder—”how could the teachings of Jesus possibly cause any harm? In the spirit of brevity, I am not going to copy and paste dozens of scripture from the more friendly, new and improved gospel according to Christ, but one more will suffice.

“Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.” Revelation‬ ‭22:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Finally, too much emphasis on sex. They’ve taken a natural instinct and turned it vile, while the emphasis on condemning “harlots” and controlling intercourse is a noble endeavor, men, in direct obedience became enforcers controlling natural behavior with stones and fire. God is love.

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Author: jimoeba

Alternatives to big box religions and dogmas

141 thoughts on “The Jesus Challenge”

    1. Of all the things that stand out as the ultimate in immorality, it would be the drip fed morality dished out by the churches in opposition to scripture 500 years late in order to catch up to the innate morality of regular people.

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    1. They do hate it. And somehow the CEO of the disaster is held guiltless in this case, and Christendom is not the results of jesus’ teaching. This convo was last week but as usual the comments are buried in a sea of brainyawns. It has been his reoccurring theme lately as he is now again, focused on following just jesus—the root of the entire problem to begin with…again

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      1. Well, in Jesus’ defense (if he existed), he didn’t actually start the religion. Born a Jew, raised a Jew, died a Jew. The church is Pauls makings. Christians, but especially evangelicals, are not Christians, but Paulanites.

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            1. Charlaran rhymes with that! Hmm. I even hear that James, the brother of the only child jesus had serious issues with his fraudulence. Wonder why? He was a Roman at heart on a mission to spread his own versions.

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          1. What Paul was NOT was of the tribe of Benjamin and NOT trained/educated by any Rabbinical (Pharisaical) school. He was NOTa Hebrew among Hebrews.” His claims of such are completely bogus as several acclaimed Jewish scholars have convincingly shown. The later ecumenical Church Fathers in all likelihood added those verses into the canonical New Testament to give him false accreditation and authority.

            Saul of Tarsus was an epileptic, heavily Hellenistic religious entrepreneur. Period.

            P.S. Drafting a two part blog-post on the man right now. 😉

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  1. I love this. I won’t comment on all of it, but the first portion reminds me of the scripture that tells people to be “no part of the world.” JWs take this to an extreme. As God’s selected organization on Earth, they do not associate with those outside of the religion beyond what is necessary. There is judgment passed on those who leave the organization. They’re looked at as “not doing well” even though they “know” where they’re “supposed to be.” It’s always driven be crazy to be thought of as less than because I know that where I’m supposed to be is not a part of that organization. I’ve seen them judge the piety of others simply because it is different from theirs. I will stop before I start ranting, lol.

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    1. It always surprised me, even as a believer that people were happy without religion. They must’ve been hiding something. But alas, they were just happy. Happier, in fact, as I know first hand now.

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  2. The gospel divides. The gospel condemns to hell and eternal torture. The gospel itself gives licence to treating unbelievers as less than human, worthy of death. It’s not difficult to imaging that the bible and the gospel gave licence for slavery and killing the unbelievers as subhuman animals and impediments to the progress of the kingdom of God in Christ. Mel knows this but is unwilling to admit and accept the end results and consequences of the gospel and Christianity thru the centuries. Totally disingenuous and dishonest.

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    1. Well Kia, don’t sugar coat it! Lol. Yes, he and the gang are quite disingenuous. The semantics of the debates always take a detour off the topics in question because they have nothing to offer.

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      1. Exactly. Apologetics isn’t for convincing the unbelievers but for keeping believers from bolting. Giving just enough “answers” to convince but not enough to demonstrate the accuracy of their claims. A good lawyer can convince a jury of almost anything. But it takes an honest person to actually care about whether it’s true or not. Mel is just not ready to be honest that way. He’s not ready for the Recovery

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        1. Thank your for another arrow to add to my quiver when dealing with the true believers, namely “Apologetics isn’t for convincing the unbelievers but for keeping believers from bolting.” A critically important insight indeed!

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    2. “The gospel itself gives licence to treating unbelievers as less than human, worthy of death.”

      How do you figure that, my friend?

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      1. Are you at all familiar with chriatian history and the “progress of the gospel” in North and South America?

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            1. The Jesuits? The society of Jesus? Really? You’re going with that? You really must be ignorant of their history too. Amazing. Do you have any idea why and how they were formed as an organization? History buddy. You’ve no idea what you’re saying.

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            2. Back to the beginnings in the discovery of americas, a first hand account from Bartolomé de las Casas “With my own eyes I saw Spaniards cut off the nose and ears of Indians, male and female, without provocation, merely because it pleased them to do it. …Likewise, I saw how they summoned the caciques and the chief rulers to come, assuring them safety, and when they peacefully came, they were taken captive and burned.
              They laid bets as to who, with one stroke of the sword, could split a man in two or could cut off his head or spill out his entrails with a single stroke of the pike.
              They took infants from their mothers’ breasts, snatching them by the legs and pitching them headfirst against the crags or snatched them by the arms and threw them into the rivers, roaring with laughter and saying as the babies fell into the water, “Boil there, you offspring of the devil!” Sweet history you’re defending.

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            3. And yes, I’m acquainted with the origins of the Jesuits. For what it’s worth, I’ve visited the room where Ignatius recuperated and the cave at Manresa.

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            4. @jim – And it is precisely because of the Gospel that Las Casas, a friar and bishop, became an early advocate for a universal view of human dignity.

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            5. Universal dignity? How can you believe that if you have described humans in such a depraved and degraded manner without God?

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            6. “We know what humankind is like left to its own devices: savage, wicked, homicidal, hateful, vengeful, ruthless, domineering, avaricious, envious, prideful, intemperate, intolerant, irreligious, ignorant and atheistic.”
              Your words loy… Universal dignity? Sounds like universal condemnation

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            7. Or are you saying universal human dignity fully realized only in Christ?
              The easy conclusion is what I said before. The gospel treats and considers unbelievers as not fully human, not fully worthy of life, only condemnation, death and eternal torture

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            8. A lone voice in the wilderness fighting an uphill battle for the duration of his life and hundreds of years before and after. The product of faith is force. And his faith was not the cause of his mission, it was his basic human instinct against religious tendency.

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            9. A moral deficit does not impair my worth and inherent dignity as a human person. Someone who perpetrates a great injustice nonetheless has the same inherent worth and human dignity as the most righteous person.

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            10. As stated earlier, you don’t have to believe that human nature is inherently depraved to recognize that there is nothing inherently moral in a state of nature. To be clear, I reject the idea that human nature is depraved. Nevertheless, history and experience show that as a race we have an undeniable propensity to do what we ought not and avoid what we ought. History shows that civilization, including religion, is a corrective.

              I do not accept the idea that the Gospel “considers unbelievers as not fully human, not fully worthy of life, only condemnation, death and eternal torture.” To be clear, I do not hold that human dignity is conditional on anything other than being human.

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            11. @Loy
              …there is nothing inherently moral in a state of nature.

              “The bottom line is this: if an Absolute exists in the universe, then there are certainly objective moral values and duties which are inherently moral or inherently immoral. If an Absolute does not exist, then nothing is inherently moral or immoral, as subjective truth is all that’s left.” — Quora contributor in response to “Is anything inherently wrong or right?”

              Quote by Jonathan Lockwood Huie (The Philosopher of Happiness): Time, like life itself, has no inherent meaning. We give our own meaning to time as to life.

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            12. “And his faith was not the cause of his mission, it was his basic human instinct against religious tendency.”

              And do you have a shred of evidence for that?

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            13. He went against the grain of Christian torture. No, I can’t provide evidence for that just as you can’t, but following the lines of logic, it was not his Christianity that separated him from Christianity, it hpwas something else. Just as I would have fought it as an atheist. Interesting, in the accounts he wrote, he was very clear about the overall decency of these non Christian natives. They didn’t comprehend the nature of killing and willingly submit to their deaths. Another example of exceeding the morality of your god. He also stated they had no religion and would make fine Christians, or slaves.

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            14. “Indians are truly men….Indians and all other people who may later be discovered by Christians, are by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the faith of Jesus Christ; and they may and should, freely and legitimately, enjoy their liberty and the possession of their property; nor should they be in any way enslaved…” — Papal Encyclical Sublimis Deus, Pope Paul III, June 2, 1537

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            15. He should have passed on the message to the rest. It is one thing to see the words on a page, but entirely another see the fruits it produced in the same time and place. Slight of hand? Propaganda? Appears as so but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

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  3. We know what humankind is like left to its own devices: savage, wicked, homicidal, hateful, vengeful, ruthless, domineering, avaricious, envious, prideful, intemperate, intolerant, irreligious, ignorant and atheistic.

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      1. Jim, religious morality ceratinly seems to be in short supply if you consider the biblical stories, yes? And what of the centuries old and recurrent abuse by those in positions of religious authority over the centuries? Of which the Catholic sex abuse scandals are just the most recent and reported examples?

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        1. After years the cover up is finally failing. Switching out priest is not going so well any more. The churches all have their hidings.

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          1. Problem being, it’s not the first time the veil has been lifted and the cover torn off. The public and church people eventuality forget and the abuse continues until the next time a major report comes out. Nothing changes until you kill the beast that is the Catholic Church as an organization and you lock the bastards up

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            1. And the mormons have their own abuse scandals and cover up going right now too. And it’s growing daily. That church is masterful at hiding behind suits, ties, white shirts, and piety.

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            2. Yup. The more I read of history, especially the history of the US, the more I see that Christians of all stripes stole, raped and pilaged their way across the world and the Americas

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            3. Rawgod had a great comment last week “I would have to say the early missionaries did quite a number on the world, especially the preachers and priests who accompanied people like Marco Polo, Columbus, de Gama, Cook, Cartier, etc. They spread their lies to almost every corner of the world, and now we are paying the price”

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            4. Remember, it was the society of Jesus that accompanied most of those explorers. Here in the Americas, millions of native Americans were killed, raped and starved out in order to possesstheir lands in our Manifest Destiny

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            5. @kia: “The more I read of history, especially the history of the US, the more I see that Christians of all stripes stole, raped and pillaged their way across the world and the Americas.”

              If you genuinely believe this, then you have a moral obligation to give up your home and everything you have acquired since you or your forebears arrived, and go back to your former country. If you are serious about what you wrote, then you can’t cast blame elsewhere. You have benefited from a horrific crime and bear a personal responsibility to make amends. If you shirk that responsibility, then you’re just engaging in facile rhetoric.

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            6. You in the other hand, excuse yourself by creating a false narrative and deflect the blame away from the church who is the real culprit. Disgusting.

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            7. Loy, I do genuinely believe this not because I Believe it, but because Evidence and actual History demonstrates it to be True. As to a moral obligation to give everything back myself, as if ideas the one who committed the atrocities of centuries and decades of other people… I call your bull shit. That would be like you being prosecuted and imprisoned for the despicable and torturous acts of the Catholic church and its bishops and popes over the centuries. Neither you or I are personally responsible for these acts.
              But yiiu could be honest and integrity driven enough to admit and renounce the actions and history of Christianity as encouraged and endorsed by the bible as I have been willing and active in denouncing and repudiating the actions of my country’s founders. Put up or just shut up.

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            8. @kia: No one advocates that you be prosecuted or imprisoned, sweetheart, nor are you responsible for the acts of others. You are complicit, however, in knowingly receiving and profiting from stolen property, and you should take personal responsibility for making commensurate restitution. Unless, of course, your earlier comment was just prattle (which seems to be the case).

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          2. “And the mormons have their own abuse scandals and cover up going right now too..” They sure do! Those bastards owe me my planet! They told me if I followed their ways and wore their kinky undies that I’d become a god of my own planet. Well, I’m waiting! Where the eff is my planet! All my bags are packed and I’m ready to go. I’m waiting here right by my door! Oh, I’m leavin’ in a rocket ship. Oh. Mormons, I wanna goooo, ohhhh, ooooh, ooooo, oh, ooooooh, ohoooo! Unfair!

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    1. Loy, that what we’ve been told from the pulpit and the bible, but I’d be hard pressed to give you examples from my own life of anyone with these tendencies with or without Christ in their lives. The propaganda that degrades humanity to evil and always depraved without God or without the transforming power of the gospel is just that… Propaganda.

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      1. KIA, the pulpit and the bible have nothing to do with it. You just need to know a little about the history of the human race. You don’t have to believe that human nature is inherently depraved to recognize that there is nothing inherently moral in a state of nature.

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        1. Ah you are wrong. “With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil – that takes religion.”-
          Steven Weinberg

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          1. I hope you noticed that you have not contradicted my premise that there is nothing inherently moral in a state of nature.

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            1. That is a religious contradiction. It slaps in the face of god is good. Aquinas said, “and goodness poured out”. Where? If there was a god you can see the disposition of the creator by viewing his creation. Anything BUT good.

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            2. @jim – Not really. You might have a point if we were talking about natural evils, but moral evil is understandable as a consequence of freedom.

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            3. Well, I agree is all up to us to be civil. Always has been. What is a natural evil versus a moral evil? Since the world was supposedly “created” it in itself would not be natural but a synthetic world that could have been created all good, if the creator desired. But, his propensity to adore evil is the route he chose, and he called it good, very good.

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            4. Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: “Evil in the broad sense has been divided into two categories: natural evil and moral evil. Natural evils are bad states of affairs which do not result from the intentions or negligence of moral agents. Hurricanes and toothaches are examples of natural evils. By contrast, moral evils do result from the intentions or negligence of moral agents. Murder and lying are examples of moral evils.”

              https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concept-evil/

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            5. So Christianity would be considered a moral evil then. A choice… Well Loy, that’s good to have you finally say something that makes sense. Disingenuous would be a moral evil, while gullibility would be a natural evil. The church has embraced the full spectrum.

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    2. “We know…”? Please tell me what evidence you have of this. I can show you as much of these “sinful behaviours” in the church as much as anywhere else, and I can find as much virtue in agnostic and atheists as you can in the best Christian. So please, enlighten us as to what cherry-picked history you are using to say that your claim is some sort of fact.

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  4. @ Loy

    History shows that civilization, including religion, is a corrective.

    And this is why you are nothing but a disingenuous piece of shit.

    One of your major problems is your flagrant arrogance, somehow dismissing all other religions with your sweeping comment. Not that Christianity is anything other than utter garbage, but how would you rate the worship of Quetzalcoatl as an example of a ”corrective”?

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      1. People like Loy – ”not quite sure if its a girl or a boy” ( thank you David Bowie) are the most pathetic style of apologist.
        They comment in a somewhat surreptitious (or ambiguous?) manner believing it gives the impression they possess a measure of intellectual credibility thus lending credence
        to their faith.
        Furthermore, almost without exception, they enter the fray completely ignoring the fact that the ones they are interacting with are, in the main, deconverts of the Been There Done That Got The T-Shirt Now Eff Off type, Naturally, fault for your deconversion lies with your approach or interpretation, or that the church you attended was wrong or it was religion or you simply wanted an excuse to drink , take drugs and get laid every night of the week with someone other than your wife/husband.
        Atrocities and abuse are ”acknowledged” (gag) then swept aside; every religion is wrong except theirs, and their version of religion.
        Quite frankly, such arseholes should be obliged to defend the primary tenets of their faith with evidence – up front, and if they haven’t even got the integrity to do this, they should be politely told to piss off and go and renew their membership to the Ken Ham fan club.
        Dylan is another like LOY. Ask KIA what he’s like.

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        1. I followed the Dylan/Kia dialogs. You are right about all of this. Loy’s comment to Kia this morning is the epitome of what you’re saying. I’ll paste it for you so you don’t have to scroll. @kia: “The more I read of history, especially the history of the US, the more I see that Christians of all stripes stole, raped and pillaged their way across the world and the Americas.”

          Loy..”If you genuinely believe this, then you have a moral obligation to give up your home and everything you have acquired since you or your forebears arrived, and go back to your former country. If you are serious about what you wrote, then you can’t cast blame elsewhere. You have benefited from a horrific crime and bear a personal responsibility to make amends. If you shirk that responsibility, then you’re just engaging in facile rhetoric”

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          1. Or ….
            ”I am truly sorry I was born, it was all my fault, so I’ll just kill myself and that should solve everything.”

            The guilt trip these lying aresehats try to hang on non-believers is simply disgusting and the worse form of disingenuity.

            This is why I refuse to allow Colorstorm to comment on my blog unless he is on point.
            The second he starts with his God has never lost an argument with an ant crap he is simply tossed out on his arse.

            We’ve all heard the tripe put forward by these wankers for years.
            They bring absolutely nothing of substance to the thread, some have not even got the guts to host their own blog , and as far as I am concerned are not even worth keeping around for the amusement value.
            There is only so much Stupid one brain can take.
            If there are genuine lurkers who prefer not to comment then such people will read the post with, one can hope, genuine interest.
            This is why I no longer have the desire to entertain morons like LOY or Dylan on my blog.

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  5. I’ve a blog post prepared on Jesus’ violent tendencies (it got bumped because of a skirmish with Don Camp.) There are several instances preserved in the gospels where Jesus advocates violence, cruelty or self-harm. Strange that these are consistently ignored by the church and its ministers.

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    1. Thanks Neil. The ability to overlook the contradictions has become a physiological problem. After so much repetition and employing faith without a shred of proof, the defenses are up and it’s like a muscle memory. Great comment. I’d like to see that post your thinking of.

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  6. For one you do not know the ancient semitic languages nor do know how to define words. And no I don’t belong to any church . Your assertions are wrong.

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    1. You’ll see. All you have to do is open the hood for a minute or two and see. You’ve purchased a lemon. What specifically do you disagree with?

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      1. The problem I disagree with all altars that man created cause they do not teach you the Truth of the bible. I am versed n the Greek n Hebrew lang. I am self taught and apply Forensic linguistics in understanding the construct of sentence structures, Comparative analysis.

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        1. Doesn’t matter too much. The end result of the system created by those that “believe” has always led to force. The only reason we’re not still in the nightmare is less religiosity, not more. Some countries however, don’t have it so good. I’m guessing you learned Greek and Hebrew, self taught same as me in an exercise to prove you were right. Looks like you succeeded…in your own mind. That’s what those exercises do in any discipline…Especially religion.

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          1. I walk by myself, let me ask you a question. I could ask 1 billion Christians the same question. What does it mean to be born in sin? Very few people would be able to give a correct answer. What would your answer be.

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            1. The supposed fall through disobedience caused a separation from god. A necessary part of the plan, for without it god would be in our presence. Not much of a test then, would it be.

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            2. The correct answer is mans religion’s. For that we agree on. I left the altars 15 yrs ago. I teach what the Words of the Bible mean. It is not my place to sway you one way or the other. I would be the first one to tell you to leave the church they lie. However on the other side of the coin I would stand on the KJV. It is accurate.

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            3. I primarily read kjv most of my life. It is laden with the contradictions as well, although possibly a more accurate description of the immoralities of god? Drip-fed archaic rules from a violent time. God (those in power) the ultimate giver of their own free passes To justify their control and violence.

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            4. Only if you do not know how to read it. A lot of it is figurative expressions, there are no contradictions. I have studied it for 25 yrs.

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            5. Rubbish. The simplicity of the gospel turns people into nut jobs trying to make sense of it. I know you think you have a unique understanding. So does everyone else. The entire book is mostly fiction with a few place names. From Abraham to Noah to Moses to Jesus, it’s ridiculously inept and corrupt. Look what it does to people man. Spin your wheel and go nowhere for thousands of years. I can do better on my own.

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            6. Then why the search? Here’s the final offer. “If” there was a god, the ultimate test would be to see if one has the integrity to call bullshit on the errancy and the immoral morality of the Bible, without excuse, against the indoctrinations of the herd. Do you have the guts to stand against overwhelming pressure to believe in the myth? Very simple.

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            7. One it is not a myth. Two I do have the guts. Three you believe in a God perhaps not the Jewish but you do believe in a God. I believe in one God, the problem begat there are only two ways we learn things we are taught or we mimic. Even an atheist has God.

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            8. Really? Now you can put belief in my plate with an erroneous convolution? Imagine this all powerful god controlling 150 billion light years of space, but checks in from time to time to tinker in the genome and see if little Ronny is playing with himself. Stopping along the way to help someone find their car keys. To hell with Burundi or the Sudan, they are not ready for gods love. Is this a joke? Well played psychological mess, devoid of funny, but superstitious men playing on the fears and herd instincts of developing brains is a faith Trap they never thought would last this long. Why were all the prophecies so immanent? The joke was supposed to be over years ago. That’s why!

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            9. I am not playing on your fears. Now you decided to disrespect me. Your answers follow a pattern your mimicking someone. Which tells me your a young man. You have a long ways to go to find yourself. I am 65, I have been around the block.

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            10. By the way, I’m not mimicking anyone. I’ve never read an atheist book. I don’t watch videos. My writing and my thoughts are my own observations. Your intuition is false, just like your belief.

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            11. Jimmy I never said you read an atheist book. You got a long ways to n life. If your going debate somehow debate the facts. Your moniker states the common atheist. So it is a natural assumption your an atheist. I am only using your words against you.

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            12. I am an atheist. I don’t believe there are any gods out in yonder heavens or anywhere. I now study the psychology of belief and conversion, and the fixed neurology of single discipline belief systems. I can only assume you fit nicely into the latter. After reading some of your posts, repetition has fixed your neurons and now the ability to ignore contradiction is physiological. Take three weeks off and read something besides religion. There is a whole nother world waiting for you.

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            13. I have 163 IQ Jimmy, I am versed in quantum physics, particle physics, RNA expressions,cosmology and psychology, radio carbon dating, ancient Mesopotamia. Plus the ancient semitic languages, and some cuneiform language. All you do is to try excerpt your weakness as man to feel important.

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            14. That’s an impressive resume…If it were true. Try neurotheology. When learning all those things to prove one thing—god, everything seems to relate to your experience to prove yourself right. I know…I was in your shoes. Just remember, we cling to FAILED ancient civilizations that wrote their failed but eloquently worded philosophical BS religion and it’s a failure. Still.

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            15. So. Everyone knows that. What’s your point? Having feminine qualities is quite natural for many men of our species. Everyone has a place…Except in religion. I have some feminine attributes myself. So what? I had those same characteristics as a believer too. Nothing’s changed except I truly love people now without someone putting words in my mouth to parrot

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            16. What effeminate means is you give up your strength as a man n become weak inside devoid of life. I can tell that by your answers. Your angry .

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            17. I never get angry Ron, I just observe and report. I am more full of life these past 5 years than I was the prior 50 in the lord. Once one realizes the hoax, one finds the key
              to understanding the mysteries of god is unbelief. True. A whole better and more loving world unfolds before your eyes. The gospel was set to divide from day one. That even scriptural, as you can see in my fine post.

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            18. Mysterious of God is unbelief. Your were taught by mans church. I believe I don’t walk with the church. Loving world you deceive yourself. What hoax are you talking about Jimmy.

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            19. Good night Ron. I’ll continue in the morning if you like. Nothing in scripture adds up to any observable reality. That was my turning point. It’s word play designed to keep you chasing your tail and no answers, only more conjecture, is the way of faith.

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            20. I have a feeling that the fall will be pretty big this time. In evolutionary terms, the religion was a necessity to strengthen our numbers, but enough! Now it is driving us to the brink due to self imposed autonomy—the right to believe, even in what you all know—you don’t know! The herd instinct is stronger than reason.

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            21. I agree with your assertions. Before you had religion you had Animism that is older than religion itself. There is a group of people that they found in the deep parts of Brazil that never had any kind of outside influence. This was about 2 years ago. They practice Animism. the crux of the Bibile is the belief in one God in contrast to mulitple gods. The illustrations for multiple Gods comes out of the Middle East between the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers. In the ancient semitic languages this area was known as the land of gods. they worshiped over 3000 gods. there are only two people in life, good and evil there is nothing else. The floodplains of Mesopotamia the sumerian people were known as the black headed people. This is a reference to evil men simple as that.

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            22. I was under the impression you wanted the correct, doctrinal response. What “born in sin” really is; a play to establish mans weakness and worthlessness to manipulate them into a controllable state of fear.

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  7. I enjoy our debates , I like the challenge, I am going to follow your site. In high school we had to take a debate class. You were required to debate both sides of an argument. It would please me to continue this from time to time.

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    1. Right on. I’ll check in with you when you do. Your frequent posts are a little too much for my inbox, but I’ll read you when we talk. Fair enough? Thanks sir and all the best to you!

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      1. That is fair enough. I am only try to make people think, that is why I teach, I taught young men to survive in combat years ago Vietnam. I do not like to see people die physically or spiritually.

        Liked by 1 person

  8. For all the people that think they can judge God, I have a question for you: can you do better? The answer to that is simple: no. A lot of us have problems even paying bills and keeping our families and marriages together, but somehow we can tell God Almighty how to run the entire universe? Definitely not!

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    1. How about god starting with a clear and concise, definitive morality? Yes we can do better. Yes, religion has fought social equality and justice at every turn. Gods morality is an ambiguous justification for brutality. His people (Augustine) used scripture to justify forced conversions leading to genocides. Yes, we can do better, and we are, in spite of the churches.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I went through the New Testament, starting at the book of John Chapter 1. I wrote down what I learned as I studied over 9 months, with a man from California. No where in the bible do I see forced conversions, except when people of God were captured and forced into slavery or die. Sound familiar? Modern day Jihadist still do this today and behead Christians.

        Even in the Old Testament, which I am studying now, what I did see is people around Israel attacking them a lot, putting them into slavery, and then trying to kill them a lot, kind of like the Jihad/Nazi stuff today. When I study Old Testament, I see a lot of people doing bad things and God trying to get them on the right path, and many refused to their own peril.

        People do bad things. It’s not God’s fault. Even in the bible, bad things happened and God did not approve. God operated as a King with His laws and decrees, and ultimately had to send Jesus Christ down to save us because we couldn’t keep up! Which makes sense, there is a lot of stuff we can’t keep up with, otherwise our nations would be pristine and smelling like roses every day. They’re not…

        No, we can’t do better than God. Most people can’t even run their own house and keep their kids under control. You think you can manage the whole universe? I don’t think so. I mean heck, just managing a team at work sometimes can be a challenge!

        Oh, and here is something God said a long time ago in scripture. He is directly quoted in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 18 verse 23, and many other places:

        “Do you think I enjoy seeing evil people die?” asks the Sovereign LORD. “No, I would rather see them repent and live.”

        Basically, God is no myth or fairy tale. I have personally seen things written in the bible 2,000+ years ago happen, and so have many others that approach God with respect through Jesus Christ. I’m talking real miracles, just like God prescribed in the book of Mark Chapter 16, Acts Chapter 3, and throughout the Holy Bible, all based on faith in and living for the Lord Jesus Christ. One day, we will face Him and give an account. This stuff is real!

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        1. Predicting cyclical human behavior and earthquakes is something I can do quite well. No big secret. Augustines decision to force conversions on the dontists came from gods ambiguous scripture. He used the feast where the lord sent out his servants to compel them to come. Even the great Augustine was confused and misused the ambiguity of the Bible to administer torture for a thousand years. It’s in the letters regarding the Dontists. Yes. I could do better than that with a few blogging friends and a pot of coffee. Biblical morality has been justified to inflict torture around the world. Any mom and pop could see the evil in that, but, nobody asked them.

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        2. IMO, like many other believers, you want to give God a pass and ignore the atrocities that were committed with his approval.

          Further, if you think “this stuff if real,” I can’t help but wonder what kind of fairy tale world you’re living in.

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          1. No, I didn’t. God is a King. When people got His way and did evil, He wiped them out, just like any king would. The difference here is He is the King of Kings.

            I’m not afraid to talk about anything in the bible. He’s God. You don’t make the rules. He does.

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            1. As we’ve duly noted in the past, the men who wrote the Bible came from a violent time and invented a violent god to suit their needs. It’s really not that complicated till you throw in the faith an manipulation of psychology in the mix. Humans are quite predictably gullible.

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            2. Okay. So how do you explain all of the miracles that are happening today, by people who follow Jesus Christ from New Testament? You are stuck in old testament, and we are not there anymore! This was thousands of years ago. It does not need a defender or advocate. It is finished. God has moved on!

              We got New Testament, we got Jesus Christ, and we got stuff written thousands of years ago, in the Holy Bible, happening today. That proves it is not a myth, fairy tale or just “predictably gullible” humans. This is real!

              I would argue in defense God more, but I got to go to work. I’ll see y’all later!

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            3. No signs follow them
              That believe. You cannot show one miracle that doesn’t have hairsplitting excuses for god, or a natural explanation.
              No supernatural explanation has ever supplanted a natural one. Your god has gotten much smaller since the advent of the camera phone. Lol.

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            4. That’s not what the atheist I talked to face to face said, when he got healed INSTANTLY, in the name of Jesus Christ. That’s not what the woman at the store said, when her bulging discs were healed INSTANLTY in public, after she heard that same atheist comment I shared with you just now, in the name of Jesus Christ! That’s not what the man at the cyber café said, when his leg was healed INSTANTLY, in the name of Jesus Christ.

              Signs and wonders DO follow those who believe. I’ll tell you what a man that was healed recently at my work place told me a couple of days ago. He said: “I went back to church because of this.” THIS being his healing in Jesus name. He was like you, but not anymore! If you don’t want to believe me, then research it yourself. If you come at God with a half-butt, glossing over the scripture attitude, don’t expect results! I wouldn’t hire you either, if you were interviewing for a position with me and came at me like that. Why would God?

              You prove you are real about the pursuit, and God will be real about responding. Then, you will have your own personal proof, like me and many others in the world. God is not interested in your debates, but He is interested in you! Are you ready for the Jesus Challenge? When I took the challenge, I took it seriously and I got results. Now, I CHALLENGE YOU to take the Jesus Challenge, and take it seriously and with respect!

              Otherwise, you just might die in your sins and have no salvation. I have had many people, even the most angry, cursing atheist listen closely when I speak and preach in public. What are you going to do? I recommend you think real hard about how you going to pursue God, because I am not making any of this up, and I can’t argue your decision to believe or not. I have given you a little of the evidence I have so far, but not all.

              Anyway, I wish you well. Good night and good life! I hope you find God the Father, through Jesus Christ, while you are still on this side… Repent, and believe the gospel!

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            5. The mind is a powerful thing. People are healed every day by a little sugar pill. Placebo effect is a well documented science. The brain is a fascinating organ. I also know someone whose chronic pin was healed because they believed—a NON religious dream they had. Unexplained healing is called a miracle, but there is an explanation if we peel back the surface a bit. Desperation affects brain chemistry, and btw, the first available god on the list isn’t always Jesus. 3/4 of the world would select a different God. A well known fact about religion and regional beliefs. You talk about going back to church? THE most CORRUPT institutions on the planet? I value my integrity far too much. If this life were a test, it would be this … does one have the courage to stand against overwhelming numbers of believers and say the king has no clothes?
              Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it”. Christianity is not few. Islam, Buddha and Brahma are not few. Atheism is the few. We are the ones, persecuted and vilified for unbelief in a story that is unbelievable, that plays masterfully on human psychology and herd instinct, but is little more than a parlor trick in your own mind. Offering someone eternal life for a few smug phrases and a little money each week? The real price is submission of your human potential.
              You have a lot of fire in you. Would be cool if that was directed in a productive manner.

              Liked by 1 person

            6. Healing people in Jesus name is very productive! You should try it! 😉

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            7. Been through that game. 50 years was more than enough. Good luck to you. I gave everything I had, and…crickets. I pleaded for faith, but, once you see it for what it is there very little chance of setting foot in a church. Maybe become Aten after I die. That was pretty popular back in the day. So many gods to shooed from.

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            8. An old favorite from William Butler Yeats— “The best lack all conviction, while the worst / Are full of passionate intensity”. I’ll go with that…

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