Revising Revisions—Ontology or Aesthetics

How finding the perfect wording is everything to religion

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Pastor Mel was quite pleased with himself. He finally figured out a way to word his ontological quest into a way he can accept and shout how he now gets it—this is what it all means.

“We were the perpetrators of a heinous crime against God by unjustly killing the innocent Son of His love. WE were the ones with the angry murderous hearts, saying “Crucify Him!”

“To summarize, in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ we see God’s restorative justice beautifully on display”.

“First, God heals, forgives, and restores the perpetrator—us

For twenty years he had it all wrong. Isn’t this post high euphoria just going to be the biggest hangover ever? Now what? Where does he go from here?

“O Happy Day! What a glorious Day!”—Mel Wild

Author: jim-

One minute info blogs breaking the faith trap.

65 thoughts on “Revising Revisions—Ontology or Aesthetics”

    1. As is your future roasting n’ broasting on the crispy barbecue of Gawd’s ETERNAL LOVE, maka!

      “Broast Architect. Good Eats and Good News for 2,000 years! ”

      I should be an advertising copywriter!

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  1. I might be nitpicking… but isn’t he trying to cut out the root? I kinda feel for this guy… since I’ve been in this exact same predicament. Only I think it was raining. Which is the holy trinity of things you’d rather not be doing on a Saturday night.

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    1. Well since I took the picture I would have to give you a point for winning today’s contest. Yes it sucked. I have an 84 year old neighbor up the way and his waterline from 1963 decided it had lived long enough. We took turns digging in the muck. Fine time. Luckily his son was here turkey hunting for the weekend and we had extra help.

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          1. That sounds like a terrible prize. Well… I suppose when faced with what’s behind door #1, a free vasectomy (two bricks and a shot of whisky) and a telephone pole… I’ll take the telephone pole.

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            1. The price is right. If you don’t get what you want, always choose a different door. The odds double in you favor. You familiar with the Monty Hall problem?

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            2. I vaguely remember this one. It has to do with choosing doors in a game show? And that I should just go with the telephone pole right… and be grateful.

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            3. You are so clever. Probably because you are so old. Ha ha. I googled it now. It’s actually really interesting. I love game theory! So thanks for that.

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  2. Instead of so much time being spent focusing on Christian ontology, how about we spend our time focusing on Christian “oncology” and stop spreading the cancer of religion? There’s a happy Easter thought. 🙂

    Liked by 4 people

  3. The reasoning is bizarre. I wonder if it started as some kind of misunderstanding of natural cycles? Like maybe someone heard about a pagan mystery rite and walked away not just completely misunderstanding but the twisted version somehow went viral. Everything does die and everything is reborn — cyclically. In the here and now — on planet earth.

    That is probably a generous excuse. More likely, these ideas were intentionally propagated because they benefit the ruling class. All us/them dichotomies are great for the war business. And who benefits from war? Not the farmer. Having workers feel insecure or worried about the state of their eternal soul distracts them from addressing who really is the cause of their distress.

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    1. We see the intent even today in the ruling class, exempting themselves from the laws they pass and really just living outside the laws at every turn. Same with the money preachers.

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  4. I don’t quite understand. Jesus’s mission was to become the sacrificial lamb. The plan was designed by his father who he is also. If Jesus doesn’t die, then there is no Christianity … none, zero, zip, nada. So why is there any guilt associated with helping Jesus fulfill his plan? What the eff are these people talking about? The whole story is incoherent and nothing they say can make it so. The premise of the plan involves a human sacrifice because … Yahweh banned those some time earlier … wtf? There is no connection between the plan and the consequence. We were saved? How the heck did that happen? Why is the saving conditional? I don’t expect that Pastor Mel is the best spokesman to sort out this ridiculous story but then I don’t suppose such a person exists.

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    1. I was just over at Maks blog discussing the gospel of Thomas. Here’s the deal, and maybe the entire premise of the Christian exercise
      Chapter 2) Jesus says:

      (1) “The one who seeks should not cease seeking until he finds.
      (2) And when he finds, he will be dismayed.
      (3) And when he is dismayed, he will be astonished”
      When we “find” we will be dismayed because what we find is the whole thing is some type of practical joke gone viral—there is nothing at the end of the rainbow.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. There is nothing except confusion at the end of the Christian/Jewish/Islamic rainbow, true, but it’s not the end. An individual who already invested much of one life investigating possibilities can, so I discovered, replace the joke with something else that actually works. Without going into the esoteric (don’t want to scare anyone or cause controversy – hah!) all we need focus on is developing compassion on an up close and personal basis. That, and only that, will spell the end of the spell of religion. …and good luck with that someone will say…

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  5. I think you do injustice to such an excellent term as ontology when you taint it with Christianity! I would rather attack “monotheistic theology”. Ontology has to do with being and how forms of existence and phenomena (be they human or otherwise) connect or relate to one another. Monotheistic theology on the other hand has plenty of “damaged pipes” because of all the stuff they force into them (aggravated by poor installation), but at the same time it loves to break all other differing “pipes” to justify its greatness. To paraphrase Erasmus, in the land of broken pipes, the damaged pipe system is king!

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    1. My apologies. Lol. You are right though. Mel over the years has shoehorned his views of ontology into his tiny world and I slipped up. Sorry boss. I allowed him to redefine terms to play his delusions. Hah! Never again…again.

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  6. Yeah, like that’s something one would forget? But wait, wait, wait… there are billions of us, piles and piles when you add up all the past generations, and each individual in that pile of billions is personally responsible for killing one Jesus? Each new born who didn’t make it at birth, each child killed in crib death, accident, famine, war… killed her or his own Jesus? There are a lot of sick ideas floating around on this world but this beats all. Who can believe this shit and have even one working brain cell?

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    1. It has to be pluralistic ignorance. All brain cells are not created equally. Many are effected by the flow, the herd, the pressure to make sense of it all so they find a way to reason it out so they don’t go crazy. Belief transitions to unbelief in this nonsense, but few will admit it publicly due to the pressure and the doubt. Am I the only one? Nope, but it’s set up to make us think we are.

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  7. Hey,who “we” white man? I can remember past lives and definitely know I wasn’t there. Them’s were Jews calling for brutal capital punishment and I’ve never been Jewish though I may have been Druish, and even Shrewish and I’ve most certainly never wanted to see anyone crucified and that’s a fak, Jack. Ya ain’t gonna pin that rap on me, Big Daddy; I can however easily deduce by your own record how you’d get off on seeing your own son tortured to death by a mob of religious Fuddlementalists. I mean, where would you be without them after all? Hardly a bad memory in things Earthian. So you give ’em something to demonstrate that they do indeed love to emulate their godhead. Then you pretend to forgive ’em, but only on condition that they remain all too ready to do this shit over and over again for your grand entertainment. Now where did I leave that last stitch…

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    1. Nice. I wasn’t there either, and I can’t even remember my past lives. Maybe I’m a newbie? But even then I wasn’t born yet, but I get to pay the piper anyway. Real god of compassion. Ha!

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  8. It’s quite simple really. Your scum at birth and unless you accept the Christian narrative for salvation your doomed to suffer for ever and ever and ever. So says your very own merciful god.

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  9. Um, if that was the *good* way of doing things, why the total genocide of all living things back with Noah?

    A five year old can see the problem with this story, why can’t a grown adult man?

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    1. Well John here we go. The other side of the story is you just either don’t get it, or just don’t care that YOU killed Jesus too. And I love you, but be ready to burn in hell for pointing out such fallacious vitriol with your wooden spoon argument.

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      1. Now I know—I am the problem. I killed Jesus—Mel

        Ray Boltz comes to mind and a Sunday I sat in the congregation listening to a soloist tell me it was me who drove the nails. That may have been the day that the slippery slope started for me.

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        1. We’re all just murderous sons a bitches. Even though I can’t kill anything anymore (I got tired of the excessive masturbaiting) it seems a certain segment of the population thrives in killing animals and celebrating the innocent death of a hero. They do like to talk that over, but not the other. Hehe

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          1. If he killed Jesus then he is surely to blame for other atrocities. He can pay for slave reparations and things of that sort. Only by sharing what he collects in the tithe box will he be truly forgiven.

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            1. Agent: We have read your manuscript, sir. Let me see if I get this right. First you have to kill god who pretends to be his own son (hmmm, I think that part needs a serious re-write) and comes to Earth among his own people (hmmm, that would be a tiny fraction of the Earth’s human population yet on the pretense this is applicable to the entire planet, perhaps the entire universe) whom he eggs on to the point that they have him tortured to death (hmmm, now god is dead, I’m not sure I’d buy that even in a super bad fantasy novel) but although he is dead he resurrects himself and declares that anyone who now worships him as this tortured entity can be conditionally forgiven and “saved” from the horrors of hell. All that to arrive at the answer to my question: who is it that forgives, and on what condition again? No, sorry, but our publishers are not in the market for this kind of material. Let me be blunt: only an idiot would read your kind of manufactured tripe sir. Have you thought about turning your typing skills to writing obituaries? Greeting card slogans? Ads? Anything but this. {{And yet this tripe was not only published, but became best sellers and led to the invention of the world’s most popular and worst religion ever.}} What did I write about idiots? What’s his name said, “There’s a sucker born every minute.” He knew what he was on about, he’d met some serious Christians. You know what? I feel a whole lot better now that I’m no longer forgiven. Praise Nobody for Nothing!

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            2. …and that brings up a thought I think you may want to take a bite of: what makes a thing true? We talk a good game about truth, and lies, and how much do we really know about it? The answer to that is out of my league but it puzzles me.

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            3. Jordan Peterson says that a thing is true if it’s useful. Personally I don’t know why true things need to be useful, even if I value something being useful. I get where he is coming from in that sense that I think humans decide what is true based on it’s usefulness. Which is pretty sensible. However, because it’s useful doesn’t make it true, and what is true might actually be more useful.

              Of course deciding what is actually true and what isn’t, is no easy task. Where we might even have good methodology for discovering truth we still make conclusions based on limited knowledge and for the purposes of solving problems we have today. As different problems arise we may find that what we thought we knew to be true, is not so in other cases and thus what we think we know changes.

              It doesn’t change the fact that there are more reliable methods for uncovering truth than others, and there are more well supported ideas than others, and all we can do is hedge our bets towards those ideas that have a higher probability of being true, and if we want less probable things to be true we have to work harder to demonstrate the legitimacy of those ideas.

              There are also of course things that can be true for one person, that aren’t true for others, I think all that is great providing acting according to those personal truths doesn’t cause harm to others.

              The question I often wonder about is can we find something useful and not care if it’s true or not? It seems there are some people who can operate in this manner, but it seems most people cannot.

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            4. The wrong size wire in a house can be useful and still wrong ( maybe better than no wire at all) Once you commit to it and wire it in and Sheetrock over it, you just learn to live with the low voltage, only plugging in what you know will function. But once it’s fixed and you can run everything at-will on it you realize how much better things can operate, rather than a current had been decided by the limits of another .

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            5. Well said, which is kind of what I was getting at, but not very well. Some things that are useful, are not the most useful things you could have in a particular situation. I think that describes the heart of a scientist pretty well…What i know now is useful, but maybe I could know more useful things with careful study of the problem. 🙂

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            6. I tend to agree with Sha’Tara. “Truth” is what works for you (even low voltage wiring 😃). Why else would there be Christians, anti-vaxxers, climate-deniers, Republicans …

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            7. How did “anti-vaxxers” get in this? I’m a life-long anti-vaxxer and for good and studied reasons, the main one being that forcing medical interventions on people is simply put, the work of Fascists, Nazis and of course, torturers. Belief in the power of vaccines is just another religion based on fear, the fear that non-conformists to the fascist agenda may cause an out-of-step condition within the marching clones in boots. We are all equipped with magnificent immune systems which vaccines and increasingly poor and unhealthy lifestyles are systematically destroying. Mine works fine, thank you very much and has all of my life. The other point I like to make to “Vaxxers” is hey, you have your choice to get vaccinated and “protect” yourself from whatever you fear, so do that and you don’t have to fear those of us who worship at a different shrine. Freedom of choice is of no value if it is subjugated to fear and profit mongers.

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            8. No offense, Sha’Tara. But overall, the value of vaccines has been proven for many, many years. And the results of not being vaccinated is being demonstrated at this very moment with the measles epidemic. But of course, each of us has the freedom to make whatever decisions we feel comfortable with.

              One further comment — you wrote that we are “all equipped with magnificent immune systems … and mine works fine.” Sadly, not everyone is as fortunate as you.

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            9. I think there is a reasonable amount of personal responsibility and bodily autonomy allowed in the vaccinator world. I don’t ever get flu shots nor all the run of the mill stuff, but the big ones are a pretty good idea. Flu shots are a crap shoot and not worth the trouble for me—yet. Someday I may decide to. When I was working as a medic the local hospitals were forcing everyone to get a flu shot (even to bring patients in the ER) I thought it was ridiculous and still do. But the big ones…no big deal for the vast majority of recipients.
              On the flip side, I’ve known people with polio and whooping cough and the risk to me is worth it.

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            10. Seems to me it’s a truism that any useful thing should be true, but then again I may be confusing “true” with “real.” Now we enter into the murky area of faith: a thing need not be real to be true – to the faithful in this case. Many years ago I stopped engaging in “faith” discussions which usually demoted themselves into pointless arguments. This discussion makes me realize the reason why no consensus could be reached: the faith person accepts an unreal thing as true, a non-faith person cannot do that except through self delusion or hypocrisy. The same thing happens when I present, as fact, that much of the wisdom I have garnered over the last four decades essentially came via three “alien” beings which I call “Teachers.” Even if I do not use terms like ‘divine’ or ‘angelic’ there is still the problem of truth here: what is true for me simply cannot be true for anyone else without the same experience.
              You say, quote, ” I think all that is great providing acting according to those personal truths doesn’t cause harm to others. ” That is pure wisdom. Nothing wrong with outside the box thinking and acting on it if it is helpful to the one doing so and does not hinder or harm another’s life. Even better when a personal truth can be used to help others. Key rule usually ignored by religionists is, these personal truths can never be pushed upon any others. No proselytizing and no expectations. If change is expected, it can only be change within the one holding that personal truth.
              All truth then, seems to me, is personal as it requires a personal act of will to accept it as truth. The “mantra” taught by the Teacher YLea, “Believe all things, believe IN nothing,” I think applies wonderfully to having a personal truth yet never using it to overpower another’s truth and never getting “sucked in” another’s concept of how one should believe.
              Thanks for making me think, Swarn!

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            11. Thank you for your response Sha’tara. I think you make a good point in saying that what is true and what is real can be two different things. Or at least are two a lot of people. For me I don’t really separate the two. In my view of truth, things that are true, are true for everybody, which also makes them real. When we talk about personal truth, I don’t consider that actual “truth”, just maybe “useful” truth. I guess I wish we had another word for things that are true at the personally level, but aren’t necessarily supported by evidence. I guess where I tend to put those things is in the category of aesthetics. If I think dark chocolate is amazing, this is true for me. There is no way to prove it, and I don’t care if other people like it either. But maybe I might if I’m looking for a partner. Maybe I want someone to share those personal preferences with me. And that’s okay, but I in no way think that what is true for me, and even people I might want to associate with is true for everybody.

              Just as a side note Sha’tara, I guess I’m concerned, regardless of what evidence you believe about vaccines that you think the motivation for people to want to have mandatory vaccinations is fascist. Personally I am concerned about the safety of children and of people in general who cannot get vaccinated or have auto-immune diseases. It’s not something I would have even suggested to legislate until false research was published on the dangers of vaccines.

              Forced medical interventions may have dark spots in history, but that doesn’t mean that such things must only be associated with fascism. This is an argumentation fallacy called the fallacy of composition, which extrapolates individual examples in representing the whole. We have lots of laws that have been created for the public good. Laws related to driving like seat belt laws and speeding laws are a good example.

              Of course if you believe that vaccines are harmful then my analogy above is not very helpful to you. But honestly I’ve always found the anti-vaxxer argument strange…not because they don’t believe the science, but rather if you don’t believe the science, one must believe the alternative, which is that millions of doctors, nurses, biochemists, and researches are all part of a massive conspiracy to harm children….even their own children just for the sake of money. The type of coordination and lack of conscience that would go into such a massive conspiracy defies probability without having a significant amount of whistleblowers.

              I understand how one could be concerned about the law requiring vaccinations and if you value personal freedom highly it’s easy to see this as being oppressive I suppose. But for people that accept the science behind immunology and vaccines, honestly the anti-vaxx group is the one that seems unconcerned with freedom. Since we are talking about communicable diseases a choice to not vaccinate, limits the freedom of my children, other children, and people who have auto-immune diseases, or who have weak immune systems because they are receiving chemotherapy…there are a lot of people negatively impacted when a rising portion of the population doesn’t vaccinate.

              Whatever you continue to believe is up to you, but I hope that at least you can accept that there are people like me who are very much against fascism and still think that laws enforcing vaccination are because we believe the public at large is benefited and we are concerned about children needlessly dying from preventable diseases. So you may think that I am taking away your freedom of choice, I believe your position on this issue takes away from children’s freedom to live.

              If vaccinations are bad, we simply would not have to resort to tactics like islamic extremists are using here:

              https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/23/25000-children-pakistan-rushed-hospital-spread-false-polio-vaccine/

              A scaremongering Twitter video was also published where a man instructed local children to faint because they had been “poisoned” by the drops.

              Panic quickly turned to anger and a mob of around 500 people set fire to a local health care centre. There were no reports of injuries.

              As you can see the implementation of the Polio vaccine in Pakistan has reduced the number of polio cases in Pakistan has reduced the number of cases significantly. Last year there were only 3 reported cases. Pakistan is one of only 3 countries in the world with Polio cases still being reported. Thanks to vaccination, this disease has been nearly completely eradicated worldwide.

              Earlier in the month a health worker was shot for trying to persuade a family to get vaccinated. If you live in Pakistan as my mother does you see how many children suffer from diseases and doctors and health workers are motivated, not by fascism but by trying to reduce the suffering of children.

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            12. I think Jim’s last argument makes the most sense, at least to me. It doesn’t seem to take away that freedom of choice that so frightens religious and scientific people. Overall, what does the need for vaccines tell us? That something is not working with our current civilization and that needs to be worked on… or… that epidemics are nature’s way of telling us we have indeed “exceeded our limits to growth” and as a species we have become something to be eliminated, or greatly reduced in numbers. That said, why do I reject vaccinations as a cure-all? They are a stop-gap measure and a “quick fix” to social and economic problems that need to be seriously addressed – AND FIXED – but never will. Vaccines for the most part create a false sense of security among the sheeple who have no idea what they are being pumped full of, nor what it does to their immune system, if they even know they possess such a thing.
              You see, with a handy vaccine to stop, or control, an epidemic there is no reason to deal with the CAUSE of said epidemic. To those who really care about society’s children’s health, may I propose giving all (ALL!) children every where clean air to breathe, clean water to drink, healthy foods to eat, and enough of all of that. May I propose that those who truly care about children STAND UP ONE AND ALL AGAINST ALL WARS ONCE AND FOR ALL. May I propose that these same caring people take a stand against all chemical pesticides and herbicides that go into the food supplies and the food chain. May I propose that all those people who truly care take a stand against the now scientifically proven pollution of the planet that is causing climate change which in turn is about to severely REDUCE our ability to produce enough food to feed those children they feel so strongly about when it comes to promoting the vaccine losing battle treadmill.
              Swarn, I personally absolutely despise the medical profession and every corporation that pushes drugs upon a brain dead population for the sake of profit. It is profitable to be a doctor and it is extremely profitable to run a drug manufacturing corporation. It is all about money. That medical profession that I should trust to know what’s best for my children killed my mother. She was 46 when she committed suicide as a result of the treatments she was getting. Had they been honest they would have held a gun to her temple and shot her… but that would have incurred a murder charge. Do it medically and yes, you can get away with murder, over and over and over, and make huge profits from it. And please don’t tell me that vaccines and drugs aren’t the same thing. That’s my take on it, and as you can probably see, there is no point discussing that point further with me. However, convince me that taking a certain vaccines would (guaranteed!) save the life of one innocent person and I’d be the first in line to take it. It’s not about the vaccines, per se, never was with me, it’s about a corrupt institution’s pretense at caring. I hate hypocrisy.

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            13. 900,000 people die every year from medical error. I personally know several.
              Not everybody has a gun, but nearly everybody has a doctor. You’re a 100 times more likely to die at the hands of a physician than a gun. Guns don’t kill people, doctors do.
              This is tongue and cheek of course, and an example of how to direct any statistic into your favor.
              You’re right about some of this stuff, but remember the most important person regarding your health care is you. Too many know very very little about their own physiology and just take whatever the doctor gives them without even knowing what’s in it.

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            14. Therein lies another major social “disaster” that can be solidly laid at the feet of faltering Western public education. Children (you know, the ones everybody cares so much about) aren’t taught how to care for themselves, nor how to counter act the ceaseless attacks on their freedom of choice by corporations. They aren’t shown the real long term effects of eating McDee’s garbage or drinking Coca Cola’s sugary poisons. They aren’t shown the toxic effects of breathing fumes from cars and buses all day long… and why not? Because that would make them question the validity of the status quo and make them into eco-terrorists, i.e., people who question what the corporate world tells them and forces them to comply with.

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            15. Sha’tara, I am sorry what happened to your mother. There is no doubt mistakes, and bad science being practiced medicine. But this is not the whole of medicine and it is unfair for your to characterize it as such. Vaccines have literally saved countless lives and it is well documented. But it’s preventative, you can’t make the guarantee for any one person. What you can do is say that for a group of 1000 people, as you increase the number of people who are vaccinated in that group, a lot less of them will die from a diseases that we know how to vaccinate for.

              Again the lack of care you apply liberally to the entirety of the medical profession is really counter to my experience with doctors and nurses. Our personal experiences shouldn’t dictate the truth about the medical profession. But whatever mixture of our personal truths are right, it is still a mixture, and there is still a great deal of good science, and hard working and good scientist trying to improve people’s lives through medicine. I am not sure how you can dismiss that truth so easily other than it is your emotions that are impacting your beliefs.

              Finally, all those things that you list as also important, are certainly important and should be fought for. But none of them guarantee the spread of communicable diseases. There is in fact lots of evidence to show that having things too clean is also not exactly good for our immune systems. It increases our susceptibility to developing allergies and getting sick more often from cold and flu. In reading your thoughts on this subject, you do have a profound misunderstanding about how the immune system works, and how herd immunity works. I sense you are not interested in learning because that would force you to challenge the beliefs that are important to you in building the narrative of the evil medical profession.. I don’t blame you for feeling the way that you do given what you’ve experienced, but I also have to weigh the impacts your views have on the lives of children and others who will suffer through the anti-vaxx anti-science mentality. So for someone who says believe in everything and believe in nothing, in this case you have very specific beliefs while rejecting others. This isn’t consistent with the way you often present yourself. And I think it’s great that you care passionately about so many important things that would make the world a better place, but until you understand the science of immunology you should perhaps not condemn vaccines. Again you are committing the fallacy of composition here in your logic and illuminating a good example of what happens when our personal truths interfere with what is real. What is real, is that vaccines work.

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            16. This sort of applies to my post today in reverse. Negative experiences can also effect our perceptions of what is correct, in spite of good evidence we are swayed to agree.

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            17. I’m sorry too, Swarn, but this is how it is. I have taken a stand on something that, from study and personal experience and observation, makes sense to me. I will not accept being made to feel guilty for being anti-vax (“think of those suffering children!”) in the midst of some of the greatest hypocrisy going. I’ve stated my reasons for being anti-vax and issued a challenge to those who would turn the guilt on me for not caring about man’s children. When the fat executives of drug and vaccine manufacturers and the equally fat practitioners of “medicine” who push drugs and vaccines upon children actually admit why they are in the business and then turn their profits to actually showing that they care about children and their mothers; when they step out of their high-priced vehicles and their multi-million dollar homes to take a public stand against those things I have already mentioned… well let’s just say I may give myself a re-think on my anti-vax stand. Until then, let’s not waste space talking about something that cannot change. They won’t change, so neither will I. They won’t join me, I certainly won’t join in their hypocrisy.

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