Was There Ever Nothing?

Creating out of nothing while god roamed with nowhere to go

Assuming for the moment that there was never nothing as the simplest and obvious contemplation of existence. If there was ever nothing (creatio ex nihilo) there was also no god to form the universe due to this non-existence of any thing. The writers formed the the verse out of thin air. Contemplating the implementation of subservience from origins to birth to death—through our own faith.

If there never was nothing, have I always been something? If the universe is indeed a brute fact, always in existence in some form or another, so too, have I always been, in some form or another—and always will be, in some form or another.

Will my consciousness remain part of my identity, attached to my own sentience, if it ever was to begin—or end with? I think so.

Nice little find from our hike on the mountain today.

Author: jimoeba

Alternatives to big box religions and dogmas

47 thoughts on “Was There Ever Nothing?”

  1. Hmmm, nicely put, but “have I always been, in some form or another—and always will be, in some form or another” doesn’t involve consciousness or individuality, just atoms, which have neither.

    As best I can understand the origins of the universe/universes, and it is a poor best, is that there are in a sense two kinds of “nothing”. We imagine “nothing” to mean no content, but nature appears not to recognise that definition, and in fact has particles popping in and out of existence in a quantum ferment.

    Love the blue-tailed skink – where is it from? There are copper-tailed skinks in this area, but nothing as dramatic as that!

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    1. This is a mountain skink, NE Washington State, near the 49th parallel. Copper color would be cool. This guy looks like he escaped from the smurfs paint booth.
      They are laying their eggs this time of year.
      Are you sure atoms have no consciousness? There is certainly more room in it than not. In us too.

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  2. Cute creature. Cuter questions.
    Nothing can exist unless there is life to be aware it exists. Schroedinger’s Cat demonstrates that. Potentiality is not certainty. You, as a part of life, have always existed.
    Consciousness is another matter. You’re consciousness is not a steady stream, IMO, so you are not only one conscious being. But consciousness is always a potentiality, as long as life exists. What we do with that will determine when you have consciousness.
    I hope that mskes sense.

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    1. The potential for life exists in a very narrow window when conditions are met. When conditions fail (through illness or a damage to the environment) it fails to thrive in a sickly host and death occurs. Consciousness can sit on the shelf for eons of time, but when conditions are met it will not be restrained from directing life to happen.

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      1. I fear we are talking apples and horses, but no matter. I could suggest you say “life as we know it” exists in a very small window, but that is the life we know. Is there any other kind of life? We don’t know.
        When I think of consciousness, I think of what goes on in my mind. Now I am limiting myself as you were above. The traps of laguage are many, the possibilities for meaning ever expanding. Good for you; bad of me.

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    2. I don’t believe this. There is a vast universe out there that most certainly does “exist” outside the observation of our (or any conscious) minds. Observation did not magically “poof” the Magellan Clouds into existence. This is not what Quantum theory really says.

      I think we are also losing focus here. What I mean is that we are broadening the definition of “consciousness” to include almost any action by natural forces. Defining atomic particles popping into and out of existence in the quantum foam as “conscious” seems to be a pretty broad-verging-on-useless definition of “consciousness”. Consciousness is an emergent function of biology.

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      1. Well, BB, you’re free to believe whatever you want, and so am I. That is the beauty of consciousness. But it still takes life being aware of something in order to give that something existence.
        Thought experient: Somewhere in the vastness of intergalactic space is a 1 foot cube, travelling at 1 foot per hour, between one galaxy and another. We do not know its direction. It could be going from one galaxy towards another. It could be circumnavigating one of the galaxies. It could just be moving tangentially to both galaxies in a pefect balance of gravities. Or it could be moving north or south to the plane of the universe. Chances are it will never be encountered by any form of life for the entire time the universe exists. How do you prove to me it is there?
        Stupid question, right? Because even if it is there, without life to recognize it that cube is absolutely meaningless. Who cares if it exists? No one, just me and you. And we will never know.
        What good is a universe of rocks if it is never encountered by life? It has no reality. Without something alive to give it credence it may as well not exist.
        As for consciousness, you say it is an emergent function of biology. But that is a general statement. Consciousness can exist, we know that because we call ourselves conscious. But is there consciousness in an atom of hydrogen? We have no idea, and until an atom of hydrogen jumps around and shouts its consciousness to us we will never know. Till then we look at it as matter, not life. When I speak of consciousness I speak of it in the specific. My consciousness. Your consciousness. Jim’s consciousness. You are standing up waving your consciousness at me. It behooves to to recognize it. Same with Jim. In fact, it was his consciousness we are responding to on this blog. You and I are both jumping jp and shouting at him, or to him. But, should any of us die, that consciousness disappears from this plane of reality. It will never exist here again.I am not broadening my definition of consciousness. In fact, as I said above, I am limiting it greatly. Therefore, I am not really sure what you are getting at by mixing consciousness with particles popping in and out of existence. Sorry, BB, but you totally lost me there, and I freely admit it.
        Hunh?

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    1. That’s ok. Religion and science are finding common ground. Science discovers something and religion borrows it. It’s a one way street.
      The majority now go with the Big Bang but god did it. How you say, that did god do it? Oh, he’s super powerful. I don’t know how he did it, but I just have a good feeling about it.
      What would you call a Skink that was created? We carry evolved skinks here, 100% uncreated.

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      1. It’s always fun to get an apologist like Mel to state (finally) that they believe in evolution, BUT god tinkers and guides it… which of course is not evolution, but we can ignore that for the larger point, which is for them to then identify where, exactly, god tinkered. Ultimately they have to own the bad as well as the good, and considering there’s more bad (80% it’s estimated) their god is shown to be a rather odd fellow. Naturally, if it’s Mel being driven down this path it’ll all end with “Your ontology is incohrent!!!”

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        1. I just read an anxiety study yesterday. The US (gods country) ranked 3rd. I believe Chad was 2nd and Greece was 1st? If I remember right. But yeah, religion eases none of it, but it only has to claim it. Say it big and often and people will believe it. Even though the data says otherwise.
          Btw, Panama led the way with many other LA countries as least stressful

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            1. Skim the data and hand pick what sounds good. Then believe it like hell and all is well. Believe it enough to fight for it!

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  4. Of course a god (or gods) did it. Otherwise, there would be no reason for them. I cannot recall well there being nothing, nor the universe happening, this galaxy, or solar system. However, it makes me roll my eyes when people seem to think that any of it proves or disproves the existence of one or more gods. Love the blue tailed critter.

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    1. I like the skink too. I’d never seen a blue one.
      Origins is fun to imagine, but isn’t that what we’re best at? Imagining. I imagine things are quite a bit older and crazier ( even here on earth) than we can did out of the fossil record. This ain’t the first rodeo.
      I wonder if each dispensation gets their own Jesus, or are we the lucky ones.

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  5. It seems we are on a constant quest to determine why it is that we are so damned special. So, we lay our consciousness at the feet of the Special God as a sign of our specialness. Or maybe it is our immortal soul. All we can really say is that we are unique, which isn’t much of a claim because there are a great many things that are unique.

    As a fact, none of us remembers the time before we were born. This seems obvious to me because memory is a function of our brain and before we were born, we had no brain. I suspect that after we die and the atoms making up our molecules fall into other configurations (atoms are very recyclable don’t you know; your body has atoms in in that used to be in parts of dinosaurs; I won’t tell you which parts) and we therefore no longer have a brain, we will no longer have a memory. What would a consciousness be like if it had no capacity to remember? Not much I suspect.

    We desperately want to be special and since we rarely achieve that in our lives, we want to live on.

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    1. We are becoming dinosaurs Steve. Your a little closer to it than me but, heheh.
      True we think we’re special, but it’s all relative. When we get outclassed by an alien invasion…never judge your greatness til you’ve see the competition. We can barely get off this rock. A year in zero gravity and we can’t even survive without serious rehab and help.

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  6. When I learned about entanglement, I started to think maybe atoms do have some form of consciousness. Was there ever nothing? I doubt it, but does it matter? All matter and energy gets recycled, but my memories of this life will vanish when my brain dies – or even sooner, as I observe my mother with severe dementia.

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        1. It’s a crap shoot for now. And though It doesn’t run in my family but maybe I can be the first. We’re all living older so chances are pretty good. However, I don’t think I’ll ever retire. You don’t see anyone in the work force with Alzheimer’s. Like my reasoning? I learned that as a believer!! Ha!

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  7. argh. My brain is too small for some of your questions. But my heart has been expanded by the image of that amazing skink. What a great find.

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  8. the ‘nothing’ that we find in hinduism, buddhist, zen, kabalah, etc is full potentiality. not something mind can possibly conceive, but only experienced in highest states of meditation. and yes, it is correct that, realizing you are consciousness, you have always been and will always be. not the persona we associate with day by day, but rather pure awareness in which all life occurs.
    i’m a practicing yogi, but i do enjoy reading your posts 🙂

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    1. Thank you Monica. I am trying to piece all this together from my own observations instead of relying on experts and commentary—Common Atheists and everyday spirituals that don’t subscribe to the big box religions. It is too easy for me to agree with ideas I like that don’t necessarily equal reality. Thank you for your comment. I’ll look into some of those things from my own angles (if I can). Haha

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  9. The god Calculus elegantly explains how the existence of something called nothing is a mathematical certainty — zero is no more mysterious than infinity. Mathematics doesn’t impose a damned (literally) thing on you 🙂

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  10. A nice insightful yet brief post. I’m of the opinion that we have always existed in one form or another, even if you didn’t have awareness of it. But was there a universe before this one? Well if this universe formed then it shouldn’t be impossible that other universes formed before it.

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  11. I tried to read a couple of articles about ITT, but it’s way over my head.
    With no expertise, I think there has always been something and a state nothingness seems to be impossible. If it were to have been such, I don’t see how it could ever be anything more than pure nothingness forever. There would have never been anything.

    Also consciousness seems to be strictly a product of the brain. Once the brain is dead, consciousness ends for good. It is simply a byproduct.

    I’m an atheist and sometimes it seems some theoretical scientists..the ones that are atheist, search for mathematical proof of this sense on ongoing consciousness …this sense we have always been, always will be metaphysical view. To me, it seems like an back door effort to find that “something more” that religion seeks. Not in the same sense as in gods, but maybe a unconscious search for a proof of an afterlife..
    Man seems to feel this pull….but it’s just a hope and a prayer, as they say..nothing more.
    My view for what it’s worth…

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    1. I’m with you, Mary. I often think we humans try to “see” things when there’s really nothing there. (I especially liked your “back door” comment.) For me personally, I find it interesting/fascinating to think about and discuss such “deep” topics, but consider it mostly exercises for the brain. 😉

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  12. One thing I remember about the Kogi of Columbia was their take on the living earth, such as a river, they considered it to be a conscious, living entity. Damming a river essentially kills it and changes the rain cycles and the entire ecosystem. Look at the drought stricken areas of the west here and the timing of these big dams. Coincidence? Maybe, but places like lake mead and grand coulee have changed dramatically since the dams were built. Something to think about.
    Science is actually confirming this in a lot of ways. Trumped by a 1000 years from a recently contacted tribe.

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      1. Probably just killing off the old way and the adjustment is always hard. Now the Columbia river is laden with squaw fish and suckers. It’s not an improvement, and the natural balance is disrupted. What took millions of years to become is changed in a generation and that’s hard to watch.

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  14. I’ve wondered that myself Jim… If there was nothing than we must understand that there was never a god. If so, man he must’ve been lonely for the infinite amount of time he’s been alone out there. Planning existence?? Ya know I just don’t get it..when we think about TIME and SPACE it’s easy, actually common sense, to understand that it’s much much much larger and OLDER than a god. ahhhhhhhhhh! Also that’s quite a lovely Skink!!😃 Love this post Jim. I ponder these questions all the time.

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