Where We Go From Here

If this life were part of a series of reincarnated experiences, why would it matter at all in mankind’s search for purpose if we can’t remember them from one existence to the next? Where does it all go when you’re dead and buried? In the next 85-90 years another entirely new crop of humans will populate the earth, while nearly 8 billion purported “meanings” and “purposes” of life are lucky to be remembered after 1 generation.

From my former religiously stained fingers—death is the great escape into peace. Not by living again, but by offering exactly the same “freedom from care” that we experienced before we were born. What was lost—peace, is once again found only to be unknown—again.

We have risen to life, now against the odds of inevitable aging and death we hope to carry on, realizing some form or potential. Would we settle to be a meadow of wild grass or a meandering brook, only to prolong any semblance of physical experience? All this searching for meaning over a brief flicker from past lives feign to recall (or sleep paralysis) or merely an active, imaginative brain inventing?

The desire to live forever is a notion implanted—a wishful potential of an ideal—yet death will reunite us to our past”.

Certainly there are things I enjoy now—things that I would miss, while others disdain—if I were aware to see it.

Such is the audacity of man, that he hath learned to counterfeit nature, yea, and is so bold as to challenge her in her work”—Pliny the Elder

All of these experiences seem a little futile if you can’t remember them when in the physical realms where they are useful to us. If reincarnation were real, what good is finding out purpose in this life if we don’t remember it coming or going?

Is it so hard to live in the present? Are we just hamster-wheeling for nought?

The crooked trail into our wilderness.

Interesting mushroom

Author: jimoeba

Alternatives to big box religions and dogmas

73 thoughts on “Where We Go From Here”

  1. One of the arguments I always had with Christians was about the junction between physics and theology.

    I would ask them, “What do you think truly animates the human body? What gives it intelligence and true life? Do you believe it is the soul?”

    Most will say yes, and while I may not necessarily see the soul in the way they do, I agree. We are animated by something. You can have a body in perfect form, but the mind wanders after trauma and they remain in a coma with no medical explanation.

    That said, one of the core principles of physics is that energy is neither created nor destroyed. So, whatever the intelligent energy is that animates us (allegedly the soul), it can’t be recreated or destroyed. It must be reused.

    That’s a concept I grappled with a lot as a teenager as far as what the implications would mean if it were true. I even plotted out a whole novel around the principle called The Dream Circle. Maybe one day I’ll write it.

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    1. I am genuinely curious why this is so important to so many people. I don’t really have any spiritual inklings but like to understand.
      Everything hangs on the premise of “if”, but the way I see it nobody remembers anything when they come into this go-round, and that is likely to be the norm. New neurons = a blank slate every time.
      As far as being animated, it makes me think this fatty, watery mass of neurons is simply a consciousness receiver/interpreter. It appears many of our thoughts don’t originate inside us, but from the collective or some sort or the genesis of it all.

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      1. Regarding the why:

        I grew up in the church, so my separation from it required a transitional phase where I looked at how religion compared to science. Reincarnation, however, was no Christian concept. They were pretty horrified by my reasoning.

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        1. I had my epiphany pretty abruptly and it wasn’t due to science, although I now am a big fan. It was comparing outcomes vs the doctrine. I “field tested” the words and watched as people slogged through life at odds with their own doctrine. The interesting part to me is I realized arguing reason against faith, you essentially are reasoning against their physiology. Through repetition and submission the neurons are hardwired and the ability to hand wave fact and contradiction is is a reflex. Your essentially challenging their right to hope which stimulates norepinephrine and the fight or flight response.

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          1. I don’t think I ever had an epiphany. I never believed to begin with. I was asking questions from around 3 years old. I remember asking an aunt how she knew God existed and she asked me who woke me up this morning. It was a stupid answer, but in her mind, it sufficed.

            In my younger years, I also had a better safe than sorry attitude. Like, “This seems like bullshit, but let me do this and that just in case….” By around 16, I got to the, “Eh, to hell with this phase”.

            The transition between those 2 phases was when I started comparing what seemed logical to me with that kind of emotional and sentimental attachment to God my family had. In truth, I envied them for it for years. I often wondered why I couldn’t always be blind sheep. Why I always had questions. Was never satisfied or content to take things as they were.

            Now, that’s one of my favourite things about myself. We live and we learn!

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            1. I followed the faith like a champ. Then one day I could no longer make excuses and it was actually some bloggers right here that made me shut off the experts telling me what it all meant and started this journey alone. The common atheist had to be expert free. I was determined (and still am) to not read atheist books or watch their videos. My observations had to be my own. The reality is not as they say and in every case, every one, what we see is at odds with what they teach it does. So glad you came by. I have a brother that called bullshit on it very young. I admire people like you who can cut through the crap son effortlessly.
              I am quick to believe people, but have now guarded myself with a deep pause before considering anything.

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            2. Thank you! I have friends who cut the crap earlier than me though, by ditching the better to be safe than sorry attitude pretty earlier on.

              What was it like when going along with it? Did you genuinely believe at the time? Or did you have doubts from the very beginning? I don’t remember any period of my life when I believed. I spent so much time looking for proof of Christianity and every time, it led me further away from it. The biggest deterring factor for me, funny enough, was the Bible. I don’t understand how people read that, especially the Old Testament, and not think God is an egotistical villain. And, if we’re supposed to accept that he’s never changing, Jesus might have changed the way things worked, but God is still the same.

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  2. if I were aware … Ahhh yes. The big IF. And therein lies the sole source for all the chitter-chatter.

    I’m like you. There is no more. That’s why it’s soooo important to enjoy all you can while you’re here … instead of dreaming about some heavenly — or “regenerated” — life that will take over at our last breath.

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    1. “If”there is or “if” there isn’t, what are you going to do about it? What “if” you decide to believe there is something, does that mean there is something? And reversely, seeking and settling on a belief not going to change your life in death. Too many are dead in life, waiting to live after death.

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  3. I had to go read what I learned in grade school from the Baltimore Catechism.
    “Q. What is man?
    A. Man is a creature composed of body and soul, and made to the image and likeness of God.
    Q. Why did God make you?
    A. God made me to know Him, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him for ever in heaven.”
    There you have it: a purpose in life. And you thought it was sex, drugs, and rock and roll. 🙂

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    1. Yeah I remember those reasons given for life’s purpose but it didn’t take ’cause they hadn’t invented a camera to show us what God looked like. Only when I switched from catlicking to fuddlementalism did I realize it was by reading the Bible that I could know what God ‘looked’ like. For some reason I never wanted to be like God after that. I didn’t have that lust for destruction, mayhem, torturing and killing to qualify for any heavenly rewards. Alas, oh woe is me! I am doomed to go make merry with my friends in Hell forever …

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  4. why would it matter at all in mankind’s search for purpose if we can’t remember them from one existence to the next?

    This was always the sticking point for me and reincarnation. Hard to progress if you don’t know where precisely you buggered up in the past.

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      1. Be funny a few times around, but then he’d grow bored.

        I suppose it’s possible that the experiences available to you in Life #2 are afforded by experiences in Life # 1, in which case you don’t *need* to know the details. More reasonable to just propose everything goes into a big pot: The Big Pot Religion.

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        1. So much for finding purpose if you can’t confirm it, appreciate it, or even know your on the right track. Maybe we’re just growing the consciousness that controls us. Maybe it’s not about us at all…

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            1. I wonder. Nail what and according to who? Wouldn’t you get bored like the guru on the mountain. And what then? I want some answers dammit!

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            2. You see, that is the kind of answer I’m looking for. Simple truth. So many religioso types just want an answer and they settle for the most common answer available. Thanks boss! I think you’ve done well Master Yoda

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  5. Now that is an amazing mushroom cap! So cool! Also, I hate that I am so guilty of reaching to the FURTHEST parts of my imagination clinging to some sort of hope that through death I will be reincarnated. To experience some sort of memory of the life I had. But you’re more than correct about, “Why though?” When half of the things I experience, I don’t even remember… Gosh Soooo much to think about!! Great post Jim! 😀

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  6. As a friendly Devil’s Advocate sort, I like to toss in alternative viewpoints about subjects like this one. If I may Sir…

    In the last 30-years of my life-experience I have learned that rarely is more than 80% – 85% certainty really known about many questions of life/existence. Though vast majorities of human groups CLAIM they have 100% truth/certainty, upon microscopic examination of their claims or foundations… they do not. In many cases it is an overly arrogant claim. 😉 Right now, I think perhaps science and its ever-growing wisdom and plausible theories and sound proofs is the ONLY reliable source of truth/fact, or the closest thing to it.

    Dr. Ian Stevenson, Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Virginia Medical School, spent many years investigating claims by children that they could remember a past life. He interviewed over four thousand children from the United States, England, Thailand, Burma, Turkey, Lebanon, Canada, India and other places, who claimed that they could remember a number of incidents from a past life.

    He checked documents, letters, autopsy records, birth and death certificates, hospital records, photographs, newspaper reports and the like.

    This is merely the data, nothing more, nothing less. The University of Virginia School of Medicine has been doing extensive research on the topic of reincarnation for at least 2-3 decades now and has some EXTRAORDINARY individual cases… many that have been confirmed truthful. Here is a link to their website:

    https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/publications/books/study-of-reincarnation/

    Anyway, with the advent of Quantum Physics/Mechanics and all its affiliated fields, humanity has a long, long way to go to determine what REALLY happens after death. 🙂 ❤

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    1. I just love your answers man. Of course we have discussed many of these things before and I’m super open to those evidences. It seems like for the most part, those experiences are quite unusual, but likely true. Where those reincarnate stories originates? Were they even ours or a collective experience with a glitch in the consciousness? Will be fun to see where that goes.
      Today when I wrote this, this was my feelings on life after death for today, and great got discussion. Really good to see you boss. Always a pleasure.

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      1. Thank you Jim and I have always been fond of your perspective, feedback, and Q&A too. I always admire a gentleman like yourself who first offers kindness and courtesy/respect to strangers and their own personal life-experiences and will continue to treat others with dignity that all of us deserve. However… 😄

        As we both know, there are MANY on the internet who have about 5-seconds of tolerance for differing viewpoints (or none at all) and show about as much class and respect to others as a badger or wolverine. And you Sir do not back down from such ape-ish behavior. 😉 You gained my eternal respect when I watched you handle yourself superbly with those buffoons. 😉

        I certainly don’t have all the answers to anything beyond death. Neither do the best minds today. The fact remains that NO ONE who has died a week or month prior has come back to tell humanity what it is like, what happens, and where consciousness goes. End of story… for now. But I am 99.99% certain that none of the Abrahamic religions have any clue, not even something that will align with all of Nature, philosophy, sciences, or Quantum Physics/Mechanics. The more those fields evolve, the more RIDICULOUS theism and the fairy-tales, myths, and legends of the Fertile Crescent become laughable to a consensus of reasonably intelligent minds. 😉

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        1. Here is a quote from another reader here yesterday. “And that’s why it was such a brilliant idea from prophet Mohammad to explicitly describe his religion as the absolute last word from God that would never get any future amendments of any kind. He was the first to say he was the last, and and it worked pretty well by taking their immunity against listening to others and learning form them to a whole new level Christianity also forbids us to add to this work under penalty of condemnation. No wonder they’re stuck in first gear.

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          1. Was/Is that commentor Islamic?

            Aside from that commentor’s statement, when ANY intolerant, elite, exclusive group (e.g. the KKK or ISIS, etc) screams/claims finality of righteousness, truth, law, justice, one salvation only, eternal bliss, etc, etc, et al, ad infinitum… that is the first most GLARING red-flag that they do not align with anything within Nature, biology, genetics, ecosystems and their adaptability, embryology, endocrinology, and post-natal development of ANY human being, identical twins (at birth) or not. There is no such thing as any Monism or Binary framework on this planet or this existence on Earth. Period.

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            1. Btw Jim, I only do my version of “evangelism for the Darker side” in order for more humans to live… IN THE PRESENT, more, and not to be afraid of euphoria of our senses in safe, moderation, but still liberated. Does that make sense? 🙂

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            2. In a similar way Jim Christian Scientists believe the same sort of thing, that no matter what may happen to the human body — disease, injuries, or mental-emotional dysfunctions — none of it was above or beyond what the person’s, family’s, or group’s/church’s BELIEF/FAITH could telepathically(?) not handle and cure/fix. No need for any medical or scientific intervention.

              Honestly, is there much difference with CS and many of the Abrahamic religions and the expulsion of any REAL scientific/medical knowledge, treatments, or vaccines?

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      1. Agreed Jonathan. Since science is on the verge of the world’s first operational Quantum Computer we might just arrive at the doorstep of consciousness within a few years, if not sooner.

        https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612844/what-is-quantum-computing/

        This can then lay open Quantum superposition, supremacy, entanglement, and decoherence for observation, testing, and more advanced theories and proofs toward many answers that humanity has been asking itself about existence on Earth as well as the Universe/Cosmos. How FREAKIN’ exciting is all of that!? 🤩

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  7. Quote: “If this life were part of a series of reincarnated experiences, why would it matter at all in mankind’s search for purpose if we can’t remember them from one existence to the next?” The way I had it explained to me, how it works is, induced amnesia. When an ISSA being is born on a world such as this one which is controlled through fear, the “creature” is equipped with a controlling implant called a “soul”. The mystery around the soul idea and/or the denigrating of it is part of a psyop as some (many) believe their soul is a special gift from their god while others make fun of the concept by saying, well, it can’t be identified within body or brain therefore no such thing. Both beliefs are very serious errors which will eventually have to be recognized and the necessary steps taken to shut down the implant. I’ve done it so I know it can be done, and I also know that that was the key to recovering “myself” throughout many incarnations, not always on this world. Proof? Only the one individual who goes through the process of “discontinuation” of brainwash can know the truth of it. It cannot be shared nor demonstrated. That’s where self empowerment comes in. Such power isn’t going to be seen or experienced on this world any time soon as the pro/con brainwashing continues to hold sway. (ISSA: intelligent, sentient, self aware)

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    1. I was hoping you’d have something to say. It is hard not to fall into the trap of either/or. Always two wrong choices are presented. Thanks for sharing that. I do think such questions need asking. Who would begin to think there may be alternatives to our conditioning.

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      1. How true! We can’t know about alternatives until we become desperate enough of our pointlessness repetive bullshit to break the thou shalt not rules and go hunting other possibilities.

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        1. What if I just have a deplorable lack of curiosity? I made my escape, live on my own terms and have no desire for spiritual inklings. Is that bad? Am I missing something, or am I already there and just don’t know it?

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          1. Quick reply… If one is where one wants to be, comfortable with it, wouldn’t it make perfect sense to leave it alone? Let sleeping dogs lie? Why stir a pot that needs no stirring? You’re in your life’s center Jim, what trumps that? If there’s more for you with such an active and inquiring mind it will surely show up.

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            1. Well, like the Indian father said of his death mask in Wind River, there is no one left to teach me. Thanks. I do enjoy your perspective immensely.

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  8. Hi Jim,
    We too have discussed things before, but I don’t know how much we have ever discussed reincarnation, if at all. I know a lot of my thought processes over the past 50 years have been about “how” reincarnation works, and quite possibly I have neglected to give much thought to does reincarnation work, and why. So here is a helluva statement for you to bark at:
    Even if reincarnation is not an option, or a reality, I can try to explain to you why it should work if it does exist, and why I would make it work if I could if it doesn’t already.
    But I cannot put this into a comment, and my situation as a wildfire evacuee is not conducive to working on a new post at this time. So if you can wait, I will try to answer your questions “as I understand those answers to be” when I am in a better situation.
    Meanwhile, I would like you to ponder a few questions of my own, if you so desire:
    1) Why are people so different from each other mentally, even though they are so physically similar?
    2) Why do people have so much in common with other species, including plants?
    3) How is it we humans are attracted to certain types of people, and less attracted to others? Non-believers to non-believers? Believers to believers? Pacifists to pacifits? Fighters to fighters? Hunters to hunters? Scientists to scientists? And so on ad infinitum? (I am talking generalities here, not specifics. Anyone can be attracted to anyone, but who are you, Jim, most comfortable talking to, or being around? Who are you least comfortable with?)
    4. Do all people seem the same to you, or do you see more differences than similarities? (I guess this is pretty similar to question 1, but try it anyways.)

    This might get you onto a good start, I hope. Watch yourself while you are doing this project. Does it bring up any new ideas? How comfortable are you answering these questions? Are these questions bringing up other questions for you, questions created in your own mind? What might they be, and how might you answer them?

    Have fun. My email is gewcolo@gmail.com if you have any questions or comments for me that you are not ready to explore publicly.

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      1. Tomorrow will be two weeks since we were ordered out, and that fire is now the biggest one ever in Alberta, the news said tonight. And it is nowhere close to being subdued, let alone being under control. With no real rain in the forecast, and winds said to remain high, it will keep on growing. They said it added 50,000 hectares today alone. Hectare = approx 2.5 acres.

        Thank you for pondering my proposals.Just remember, you’re already married.

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        1. I watch the news quite often and I am Amazed that I have seen NOTHING about the wildfires there in Alberta. Nor the heat wave in Japan either. The US sure does like to keep isolated from the rest of the world, to our peril.

          Be safe..hope your fire situation ends soon in a positive way.

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          1. We’re getting the Alberta smoke but nothing on the news. They just said air quality is bad. I did a search and it was several articles deep to find something from this year.

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          2. The US sure does like to keep isolated from the rest of the world, to our peril.

            Can I modify your statement just a bit? Yes, I’m putting a political twist on it, but I think you will agree that we could easily substitute the first two words (the US) with “the current POTUS.”

            However, taking your statement as is, it does make one wonder why we don’t hear more about what’s happening in other parts of the globe. I can think of a whole lot of “news items” that aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on and would much prefer a broader perspective.

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          3. America and us Americans have a long deep heritage of Isolationism, yes… quite similar to the ostrich head buried stubbornly in the sand! Hence, we LOVE LOVE LOVE to have our assholes up in the air for all sorts of…

            Well, you get the picture. 😉

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            1. But people here are mostly so nice and are pretty good neighbors. Dumb, but nice. Too much tv, not enough travel, and way too much religious influence to ever move very fast on anything important.

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            2. 😆 Hahahaha! Have you jetted anyone off their trampoline perch yet, or at least get a submission-tap-out to the Great Aquaman Named Jim!? 🌊

              P.S. Baby oil works wonders for would-be usurpers. 😈

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          4. Thanks, Mary. It seems town officials are going to force it to end prematurely on Monday, calling the Order off, and sending people home when we only have 1 road to safety, and that road is being threatened by other fires. They say they are responding to the thousands of people who are crying to get home and resume normal lives. I realize most of these people are of working age, and their jobs have been on hold for two weeks, but it will take one good wind to blow up flames and next time it could hit the town. By then the open road could be closed, and another evacuation might be impossible. Who is going to say, “Oops, we screwed up!”? I’ll be talking to my insurance company as smoon as the Order is rescinded, I am not at all comfortable with this situation.
            Meanwhile, if you do fb, look under Alberta Wildfire Evacuee Support to get the latest news. The people seem to know more about what is going on than the fire officials do.

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  9. Ah, but the religious will point to whatever record we leave of our accomplishments when we lived and point out that these are our manifested purpose … with no evidence whatsoever that there is a linkage between the two. And, they will also claim that out lives were exemplars of god’s plan, don’t you know. There seems to be an inexhaustible supply of bullshit in these matters.

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    1. Hahaha. The record they left is evidence? Maybe of a nice try, let alone a good deity. I suppose they get to pick which record we get to use. ?

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  10. I thought about reincarnation for quite some time many years ago. I decided if I had a choice, I’d want to return as a house cat who had somebody like me to give this new cat/me a forever home.
    My now dead for 20 years wife and I used to talk about this sort of thing often. We basically figured IF there is a ‘next life’ it would be like finishing 2nd grade and getting all the answers to 2nd grade, BUT you would then start 3rd grade. Yeah, big bloody deal that would be. LOL
    No, I personally now am sure when I die, I’ll just cease to exist, end of story.
    I do remember back before the mouse (Disney) bought “Discover” magazine (it may have been the old “Omni” instead) that some biologists had run some numbers and decided that a human could possibly live to around 200 years old. Geeze! No way, just thinking about that is frightening. Why you’d have to work until at least 180 to get Social Security.
    Thanks for allowing me to comment on your blog. I promise to try and keep my comments shorter.
    I really like that mushroom photo you posted.

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    1. Hhahah! 200 years old! Imagine being bored an extra 120 years or so. Now imagine heaven with your sobby hugs and the feet of Jesus with your endless tears of joy while everyone in line behind you is impatiently waiting for their turn. “Hey man, hurry up up there”! Seems like an eternity, Jesus!

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  11. JIm: If reincarnation were real, what good is finding out purpose in this life if we don’t remember it coming or going?

    John Zande: This was always the sticking point for me and reincarnation. Hard to progress if you don’t know where precisely you buggered up in the past.

    But we do remember it. I don’t mean to say that I was a civil war general who got shot off his horse and that’s why I have this mysterious pain in my side. But in a two-steps-forward, one-step- backward kind of way, we humans do remember. How so?

    Via our history books and supporting documentation, we know there was a time when folks believed diseases were visitations of evil spirits and the sun revolved around the earth, and thunder was the voice of a god. Now we know better.

    Science, medicine, technology have proven those mythic notions to be false. But science, medicine, and technology did not occur on their own: humans did it. In spite of ourselves, we have taught ourselves a great deal about the realities of life and the world in which we live. The advancement of knowledge is not uniform, it is indeed messy and often brings new horrors, nevertheless it is advancement. What is the purpose? To work toward the creation of a sustainable environment where humans respect the existence and growth of all living things.

    Soooo, I’m reluctant to give up on the idea of being re-cycled. There’s no need for a god. Churches, synagogues, and mosques can be turned into health centers. Being re-cycled supports the idea of simply doing the best you can to make life on this incredible planet better for the next person–because the next person may well be you! “Love thy neighbor” becomes the moral guide for humanity. If we ain’t recycled, that’s good too. We simply go back into the ocean of non-being, or is it an ocean of consciousness?

    Great post, Jim. I don’t always comment but I always read!

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    1. That’s a fantastic reply. I’ve not closed the book on this his deal either. There is a lot of supporting theory and it’s a wonderful idea. My thought is possibly… what we take from here… is for there, not the other way around. This is just a blip of time where the universe may actually be a timeless existence where a physical (barely) experience would give us a different perspective.
      As it turns out most of everything here is 99.98% empty space. We are mostly not here at all, anyway.

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    2. In a sense, we (humans) are “recycled” because in essence, that’s what death and birth is all about. One could, I suppose, describe it as “reincarnation,” depending on whether the person returns (in human form) with any “knowledge/memories” of her/his former life.

      And from a really BIG picture, couldn’t it be said that all of us are actually nothing more than a “recyling” of the original humans?

      Fascinating topic to mull over. Especially when we’ll most likely never know for sure. *sigh*

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      1. This is the starting point. This we actually know. Is it so far fetched to imagine if there is a “soul” for the sake of brevity, that it too would be recycled in some manner in the cosmos. Plants, animals, stars, all forms of energy are recycled and reused in some other form. Is it a stretch to imagine we are too, in the fairness of consistency?

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        1. I’m just mulling “out loud” but my personal perspective goes back to the “energy never dies” thinking, meaning that when we finally end this “life,” our essence will be reabsorbed into the universe and become … “whatever.” Perhaps we’ll “return” in another human body or perhaps as a plant or a bug or … ??? Is this sorta’ what you’re also saying?

          Because we are “thinking” entities, it seems (somewhat) logical that we would want to continue as “ourselves” in some form. However, for me, the closest possibility of this is what I said before …our essence may “reappear” in a new (human) life.

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          1. You know though, when you turn off the machine and didn’t save the file? It’s friggin gone. Religion, folk lore, shamanism, etc, is simply claiming to be able to retrieve that data. It’s a specialized field. 😳 Like a proctology mining company.

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            1. Of course! The frustrating part about all of it is we’ll never know because, so far, no one has been able to “report back.” It’s all speculation. Nonetheless, it makes for some intriguing discussion. 🙂

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            2. Google the Anne Frank reincarnation story. Apparently some people have vivid memories as children. Detailed and compelling. Whether that’s a remnant of the collective or an individual recall is unknown—or were all one.

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            3. I’m a natural skeptic. Even reading the story, I have my doubts. Maybe. Maybe not.

              Do YOU believe it?

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            4. There are about five or so of those types of stories that are pretty compelling. Taboo actually sent me that about a year ago. Makes ya wonder when she already knew her way around the backstreets to the old home. I’m with you for now (skeptical) I do think it’s hilarious though that China is now requiring reincarnation permits for monks and Lamas. Hehe

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