Evolving From Belief Mode

How belief seems to be a default of insecurity

So, if I am skeptical by nature and don’t believe, but agree to believe by choice, would god then judge me for being a liar? If one simply does not believe the story, but agrees for the sake of community, family, income, for the children, isn’t that dismissal of personal integrity a sin?

Can one truly decide to believe, or in my current case, I only now can decide to pretend to believe? Deciding to believe is a choice, which makes it pretending mixed with hope—that lacks integrity.

It seems as though we are destined to believe, as distasteful and destructive as it is to the current form of humanity. Even those that leave Christianity generally adapt another belief of some kind. Everyone wants a belief. To me, at this point that just seems weird (maybe I’m weird) but I believe nothing. There is no progress in a modern, overpopulated world for these uberdeveloped thought convictions, backed by stubborn, tribal pride, which is ultimately just strong belief in faith.

The antithesis of what the scripture supposedly intends, but draws out the man in a course few can correct.

If I had to choose at this point, some primal form of worship would be my choice.

Author: jimoeba

Alternatives to big box religions and dogmas

49 thoughts on “Evolving From Belief Mode”

  2. I have simply admitted my truth, which is less important to others than it was to me.
    Last night while watching an HGTV piece involving a pair of shaman(s), I said “new age woo woo.” That set my wife to LHAO (she has heard me use that phrase before).
    When Merton researched “eastern religion” he remained a believing Catholic (allegedly), but it so tainted his reputation so that he will never be made a saint, despite many who think he should be.
    Anyway, going through the motions is such a common human trait (work, marriage, religion, etc.) that it raises many questions about who truly believes, but not about who does not.
    I have offered to join the witches dancing. They must have thought I was joking.
    I still love that image of the ladies dancing. I can pretend to believe almost anything.

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    1. If nothing else it would certainly be entertaining if not sensual. I used to go to the longhouse on the Yakima Rez now and then on aid calls. There was something very “real” about the intent and a deep demonstration of oneness.

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      1. I came of age during the 60’s, so I could be accused of a ‘if it feels good – do it’ mentality. That may have tempered my religious activities for years.

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        1. Lucky you. Like I said the other day, we show restraint and conform because of societal pressures and the opinions of men. Being accepted (even just a little) carries more weight than any belief system.

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          1. A while back someone said (on FB), “I am not a herd animal and I doubt if you are.” The next day I passed a field of about 40 cattle grazing, all with heads down, all facing exactly the same direction. I wondered, are we so different?

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            1. Maybe we can break away in ways that might matter. Awareness is the key. Children should be taught the biases and struggles of human cognition.

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            2. I’m told that most cows face south when eating, at least in North America. They also start in the north end of a field, and eat their wsy south. Since I was told that, I’ve noticed it was basically true. There were some rebels, but most faced and walked south. No idea why.

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            5. I get that, I just can’t figure how that would affect a cow’s day to day programming. What would be the natural advantage? Danger could come from anywhere, anytime. All looking and walking the same way seems counterproductive, unless they do it to all run the same direction if danger approaches. But what if danger approaches from the south? Do they all run right towards it? There has to be something more than magnetism, I think.But what?

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            6. Most likely face the same way to stay together and not get caught away from the herd wandering into danger. Strength in unity.

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            7. Protection in unity, perhaps, but false safety. The herd might survive, but individuals will be slaughtered.
              More like cowardice than strength. Cowardice is hiding in the herd. Strength is going it on your own.

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            8. Maybe. It serves them well to sacrifice the stragglers. They do it because that is how they have survived. Many animals will even peek away from the herd during pursuit and sacrifice themselves for the herd. Likely they don’t think it through, but in doing so they protect the young and survive on…

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            9. The young are often the stragglers. But the herd we are discussing don’t often sacrifice themselves, they prefer others get sacrificed.
              Lead cow Trumpelstiltskin is ready to sacrifice the Iranians. This will not get rid of Muslims, but it might get them worried, or angry. I know you don’t like politics, but trying to avoid it sometimes has severe consequences. The next days may make that determination…

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  4. Belief is an interesting word. There are many things I believe, none of which is religion or new age woo woo, but just how many things do I really “know.”

    I believe the earth is round because of overwhelming scientific evidence and the laws of physics and of course pictures.

    I believe in evolution because again of overwhelming scientific evidence.

    I don’t believe in any gods because there is no evidence and rational and critical thinking come into play, as well. But I don’t “know.”

    But I “know” that chocolate is the one food that I’m partially addicted to.

    And I “know” that nature inspires a sense of awe and pleasure in me.

    And I “know” that scientific research, continuous testing of theories and logic and critical thinking are the only things that will cross over from “belief” into “knowing.”

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  5. I’m going crazy. I distinctly remember writing you a comment suggesting you play Season of the Witch by Vanilla Fudge to see if the hedgehogs like classical rock better than classic folk-rock. But now I don’t see it anywhere. I think the nubile dancing girls might like it a wee bit better. I love both versions.
    Integrity. Believing in god on Sunday and being an asshole the rest of the week. Which is reality, which is pretence? No, don’t answer that, we already know which we believe it is. But in these days of self-interest we could be wrong. Maybe Sunday is the real day, while the others are only for the kids! Yeah, sure!
    Does anyone really want belief, or do they need to believe. I think for most it is a need. I cannot guarantee that, but talking to people who were brought up relgious, Sundays are still special days. I remember where I wss studying Tibetan Buddhism with a rinpoche back in the late 70s, he held his meetings on Sundays, for his students, not for him. They were addicted to Sunday contemplation. On my way to his home, I would listen to nothing but Jonathan Livingstone Seagull, to help settle me into the mood. Man, I loved that album. Still do, but not just on Sundays anymore.
    Are you still “on the fence” Jim? If you get proof of god, will you return to belief? I remember you saying you would.
    God would have to be a whole helluva lot different than what the people believe and the bible says for me to take him seriously. If he was the biblical god, I would spit in his face and turn my back. How anyone can worship that kind of god is beyond me!

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    1. If I get proof of god I won’t need to believe and humanity can get in with reality. As far as worship, god would have to prove to me he is not represented accurately in the Bible and his prophets were actually self proclaimed control freaks. If there is a god I think he would be a cool inventor type that likes people. His control over the elements is limited to solely his creative genius, and this one got away.

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  6. “There is no progress in a modern, overpopulated world for these uberdeveloped thought convictions, backed by stubborn, tribal pride, which is ultimately just strong belief in faith.”
    Catholic Answers Live broadcasts to a large audience of evangelical Catholics who find comfort in regurgitation. They store each two-hour program on YouTube. Their crap on the “myth of overpopulation” begins about 6 minutes into the second hour (1:06:24)

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    1. If we don’t continually bust ass to feed the world through innovation and technology, the melt down would be horrific. It most likely will happen, and we aren’t even feeding a good portion of the world fairly already. The leaders in these fields should be thanked, but they are scolded for genetically engineered bumper crops that just barely keep up as is.

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    1. I don’t count on any of them. They all eventually go away with time. How many forgotten gods are there anyway? Retired? Whatever? And who wants to invite anything so capricious even near their door is beyond me.
      It was kind of a joke in my works for a while. If you need help, do it yourself. If you ask god he’ll just teach you an unproductive lesson to cause you more grief.

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      1. My daughter moved out to college this part week and we cleaned out her room for one of the other kids. Pasted to the back of a dresser drawer was my old loverboy Mike Reno headband. I thanked Anoia profusely for returning me to my heritage. Haven’t seen that since I had hair!

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  8. I think you would like Dennett’s Breaking the Spell if you haven’t already read it, or at least the chapter on “belief in belief”. Even if you don’t believe in God, then you might believe in belief in God and this can often lead to practicing a religion that you don’t necessarily believe in the doctrine of.

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    1. All I’ve seen of Dennett is his TED on dangerous memes. He seems quite excellent. Thanks for the tip. There is a lot to read since I had to make this journey without the opinions of the experts. I’ve recently started collecting a few books, My first being Jean Messlier’s Testament of a dying priest. The thing is a friggin quote machine. Hard to put down. Thanks!!

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  9. If you believe nothing, why cling to notions like “progress” or “modern world”? That sounds like a view that the world is directed toward some end. I see this often in the moralism of atheists. It is common to see religious(mostly just Christian) morality condemned. That is making a value judgement, ultimately based on a belief. For example, the Muslims say it is good and right to stone adulterers to death, just as it says to in the Bible. You think the opposite of that. Why is one better than the other? Or why is patriarchal rule over women wrong, such that a society that is “advanced” would do away with it? It looks to me like patriarchal societies have flourished from time immemorial. They survive and propagate their genes, what is the problem?

    I have seen group related instincts(the herd mentioned in comments, tribalism, and so on condemned here quite a few times. You also responded to me that religious control of chastity is at the bottom about maintaining dominance over land, mates, and food, like great apes. And about genetic supremacy and pure blood. Well, if humans are a type of animal(and we are), of course those are major concerns. A group oriented survival strategy works. It would be foolish sentimentalism to throw out the basics of life for some ideal of individualism that is only possible with modern conditions that will not last. People today talk as if the world were fundamentally different than it was in the past. It isn’t, the same rules still apply.

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    1. Thanks K. I don’t cling to notions really. This site I share ideas that I have and they are welcome to challenge—I’ve decided nothing, really and know very little but a few things. We could do something great as a specie. Fulfillment comes from accomplishment. From my viewpoint having spent most of my years as a believer know that the major belief systems don’t produce the promised results. I also think they served a purpose and have outpaced their evolutionary usefulness. We can’t control breeding but the churches could try to help curb population growth over the pulpits but they won’t do it. They desire an incessant need for numbers. They are paranoid and full of conspiracy and virtually every advance or reaction to this is an affront to them.
      Let’s take population growth. We have to feed the world but few grow anything for themselves. Science develops an innovation through agriculture where they can double yields, and that is a conspiracy to control the food supply and the farmers face lawsuits.
      However we evolved or got here nobody really knows. I do know that we have the capacity to be incredible, but at this point I think our brain power has outpaced our ability to reason. We are easily suckered into choosing sides (usually two wrong choices) and our cognitive bias is so strong we can’t see that we’re stifling our ability to be great. I don’t claim or know any purpose to life, but I would like to see some unity and make the most of this experience when I’m alive. Accomplishment is thwarted by clinging to a past that frankly wasn’t so sweet either.
      I also think people beed the churches until they are confident to chart their own path, but have been convinced that they can’t be good without god. The opposite is true. They can actually be better but the pressure is more than they are ready for. The reason it matters—it matters to me. Right now. It affects my personal space and autonomy

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  10. You Stated — “Can one truly decide to believe, or in my current case, I only now can decide to pretend to believe? Deciding to believe is a choice, which makes it pretending mixed with hope—that lacks integrity.”

    My Response — Just out of curiosity do you believe there is no God?

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    1. That is not a valid question. Unbelief is not a belief. Your statement is a misnomer. The evidence that have been presented as god have other valid explanations. In fact, most of what was once attributed to the gods are fields of study these days. I’m not so gullible to assume these last few pieces to the puzzle won’t be explained in the near future. I’ll wait so I don’t have to backtrack to keep finding cracks for the shrinking god to fit in.

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  11. You Stated — “Unbelief is not a belief. Your statement is a misnomer.”

    My Response — Mine was a question not a statement but your response is interesting. It seems to indicate that disbelief is a choice that an individual can make that would not be rooted in logic and thus imaginative in nature. Would it be fair to say that unbelief lacks integrity?

    I’m just curious in the reasoning.

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    1. Christians certainly treat it like a choice. Just belieeeve! Whatever Lander. How is religious faith logical? All contradictions and all gradually falling by the wayside to discovery. Logic reason don’t mix with faith. Pretending does, however.

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      1. You asked — “How is religious faith logical?”

        My Answer — It is not. Faith is not logical, which leads me back to you connection of belief and pretending, when you stated, ““Can one truly decide”, it opened the door to disbelief being pure imagination since it’s not rooted in any form of logic.

        So I was wondering if you would agree that unbelief lacks integrity?

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        1. I wouldn’t expect a believer to be able to connect some simple dots. That’s the problem with belief and submission to and repetition of dogmas. The neurons are now hardwired and I’m debating against your physiology. Plus I won’t bite on this all night. Disbelief as an imagination? Another misnomer but you should try it. You already know absolutely that most of the story is bogus hence your own version. What are you now, 5% believer?

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          1. You Stated — “I’m debating against your physiology.”

            My Response — We are currently not in a debate since I have not presented a position or tried to prove a point. I am simply asking questions to gain understanding of what you are saying. I remain curious if these two things are both valid statements in how you see them.

            Yours — “Deciding to believe is a choice, which makes it pretending mixed with hope”
            Mirrored — “Deciding not to believe is a choice”

            But if the choice is made by someone who does not believe then does it then become a form of pretending on that person’s part since they A-Can’t prove God does not exist and B-Do not believe in him to begin with.

            So, I was wondering “if you would agree” that if a person chose to intentionally disbelieve then that decision would lack integrity?

            I’m not looking for an argument or to prove anything I’m just curious how you perceive it. When I read articles, I sometimes become fascinated by certain nuances of logic. If this is frustrating or nonsensical please feel free to disregard, no harm done.

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            1. Deciding not to believe (realizing it was all a charade) came actually through religious investigation and observation on the outcomes of belief. No miracles, no evidence, but plenty of evidence in favor of atheism. I wasn’t looking at all. I actually had to face this as an apologetic writer on faith. Liars get a lot of leeway in the world. We tolerate them to a point, then someone shouts bullshit! I had no more excuses to make for religion and it’s effect in the human mind and condition. What a waste. All the misery and death and barbarism over belief.

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            2. You Stated — “Deciding not to believe… came… through religious investigation”

              My Response — Strange how so many on both sides keep discovering what to believe while reviewing the same evidence in the same world generation after generation but still no solid explanation that everyone can except.

              We can’t even blame hardwiring since we now understand the process of neuroplasticity.

              Maybe humans simply like conflict, just a thought.

              There must be more to it, I don’t think it’s this simple, otherwise one side or the other would have been done with this repeating “investigation” a few thousand years ago.

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            4. “Under the guidance of her Christian pastors, she entertained herself, besides, with such humane achievements as sentencing a youth to have his hands cut off, his tongue torn out with pincers, and his body burned alive, because he had not kneeled down in the rain to do honour to a dirty procession of monks which passed within his view, at a distance of some fifty or sixty yards— Murdered by religious clerics—In honor of François-Jean de la Barre.

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            6. I did a post a while back. You know what it’s like to be god? Did you know in sims4 you can drown your characters in the swimming pool?

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            7. I didn’t (sick) but to be fair to the sims they don’t have a children’s network that suddenly pretends kids stop watching tv at 10PM on the dot.

              I think it’s just another one of those sick things some people do to others. It’s like monsters are sprinkled in among the people.

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