Extended Phenotypes

What are humans programmed to do?

Genetically predisposed to do something useful, the beaver naturally builds a dam with no training from its specie. Some of the ingenuity is quite amazing, being copied in principle by human engineers and hydrologists.

Birds also build nests operating automática with no training required, it’s hardwired and as natural as eating.

Humans build shelters too, and take notice when it is lacking. Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.” Luke 9:58

So what is it that humans naturally do, or even usefully tend to with no training? What are we programmed to do?

Through the course of religion we have been trained to wait, to believe empty promises that have yet to come to fruition. To ignore what we see, in favor of words. To propagate wishes as truth, and most importantly, place more importance on what we don’t know than what we do. Maybe we don’t know anything, and that’s the problem.

In a recent study interviewing patients in palliative care, the number one regret was what they worried about when life was good. Humans like to worry—though we all know the uselessness of it so we nobly call it concern, then live a life fighting back nature vs accepting things as they are, infighting our lives away over two false premises—out of worry panted by another.

Left or right, or which religion most closely aligns with what I’ve been conditioned to believe—then fight for it, all distractions from being you, which when we finally learn to do it, is pretty awesome all in itself.

Man, sometimes it takes a long time to sound like yourself”—Miles Davis


Author: jimoeba

Alternatives to big box religions and dogmas

138 thoughts on “Extended Phenotypes”

  1. You just reminded me of this lyric:
    ….’Cause you were bred for humanity
    And sold to society.
    One day you’ll wake up in the present day,
    A million generations removed from expectations
    Of being who you really want to be…..
    Ian Anderson/Jethro Tull

    Loves me some Tull! ❤

    Liked by 3 people

  2. Animals possess a natural sense of purpose; man does not, hence seeks it in his “powers” – be they religious divinities expressed as rituals, or in “good” government and certainly in money, all of which man puts above himself, serves slavishly as they shamelessly extort the life out of him, his loved ones, the very world he lives on. The question you raise is, what is man’s purpose? Nature gave purpose to all of life… all except man. Thus man seeks purpose in all the wrong things; in self-pleasuring, in personal comfort, in riches and power over others, all of which turn him into a brute. He would give himself personal value but the tools he uses to find this value are themselves of no value. Rejected by nature, how then shall “civilized” man answer the question, “who am I?” All he discovers, the more he searches, is that he is nothing but a Frankenstein monster who judges his own reality by comparing it with others of the same ilk. Which gives him no answer and no peace, thus back to seeking after that which is greater than himself, except in nature because nature will never give him the sort of brute power he needs to sate his alien madness. There you go Jim.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Thanks for the sugarcoated version. It seems that most of us just want to live peacefully…until we fall into a little power. For now we’ll just embrace our purposeless slavery as a gift from god.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I calls em as ah sees em, Jim. But answer me this, if indeed most of us want to live peacefully, why do we find so little peace, why do we support institutions that promote conflict and why do we entertain belief systems that only bring fear, pain and death? Why do people but men in particular love to watch and do violence unto life in general?

        Liked by 2 people

        1. You Stated — “Why do people but men in particular love to watch and do violence unto life in general?”

          My Response — Why do women keep making more men?

          You Stated — “if indeed most of us want to live peacefully, why do we find so little peace”

          My Response — I see little evidence that mankind wants to live peacefully but a plethora of evidence that they want to live comfortably. Peace is ok as long as Bob’s car starts in the morning (so secure my gas supplies) and he can have his morning biscuit (so cage up those animals).

          Liked by 1 person

            1. If I were to entertain the possibility of women not giving birth to male offspring where would you suggest they come from Oo


    2. You Stated — ” Nature gave purpose to all of life… all except man.”

      My Response — From a nature perspective (possibly via evolution). After a few million years of watching animals doing nothing more than eating, sex, sleeping, and pooping maybe nature wanted to see something more exciting.

      Only mankind exceeds those boring boundaries and adds more to life, philosophy, math, poetry, exploration, entertainment, games, etc.

      It would seem to me that nature wanted purpose and we are the only ones to provide it 😉


  3. Great stuff per usual.

    Deep thoughts for shallow problems.

    Our problem is with how we interpret the word. We are captive by our sensory organs to understand the environment we find ourselves. As a result it can be difficult to ascertain what is real. In what can only be called reflexive self protection, form the dreaded being wrong, the mind will reconstruct the scenario to negate the error. Fascinatingly this propensity carries over to theistic constructs where a narrative negates the demonstrable.

    Here’s to the day when being wrong or mistaken represents an opportunity for learning and understanding. There is no such thing as a dumb question. Just say’n.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Certainly. For me Atheism was more an awakening that a position. I spent a good portion of my life defending belief, now I believe nothing and forever learning. Thanks buddy.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. You Stated — “Our problem is with how we interpret the word.”

      My Q — Did you mean “World” or are you talking about the Bible?


    1. You Asked — “So what is it that (some) humans naturally do, with no training?”

      My Answer — Daniel Tammet is high functioning autistic (Asperger’s) savant and a mathematical genius. He can perform mind-boggling mathematical calculations at fantastic speeds through pictures that form in his head not via training to master math.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. You really seem to struggle with humour don’t you?
        Come on, ‘fess up. English is not your native language i it, or do you subscribe to Fox News and believe Elvis is still alive?


  4. haha! love it. i often think man is most unnatural creature in the universe: has to learn how to live, how to eat, how to laugh, etc. how to be. like you said, everything else seems to be in the know. you know why that is? because only man overthinks. he lives in his thoughts, rather than reality. so now we have to learn how to underthink 😁 today, i let go of one idea.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. You Stated — “man is most unnatural creature in the universe….has to learn how to… laugh”

      My Response — Ahhh but what wonderful laughter we have. It’s great not to be normal like all the other creatures 😉

      You Stated — “only man overthinks. he lives in his thoughts, rather than reality”

      My Response — Until we know what reality is, I say keep thinking. I add new thoughts daily. It’s part of my antisheep inoculation therapy.

      “Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.””

      Liked by 1 person

          1. Invite me when it becomes real! I want.

            Rethinking it, humans are best made to be gardeners/builders. With what we know today, could you imagine how wildly fantastic our habitats would be today if we had a stable population of only a few hundred million? It could be a tech/natural paradise. Maybe that’s how the authors of Genesis saw humans too, which is why they made Yhwh the great earthly Gardener?

            Liked by 1 person

            1. You Stated — “humans are best made to be gardeners/builders.”

              My Response — I would agree from a biblical perspective that we were originally placed here to garden. We are good at it and it’s a good life. A world where people worked hard on the farm, food is plentiful and the world mostly eating and drinking on the downtime.

              That could be a paradise for some. It would also be a vegan world (no more steak Oo)

              Liked by 2 people

  5. The only purpose of any life is life itself. All the other animals know this, but humans are just bound and determined to find something “better” than everything else that shares the planet with us. Too bad that usually comes from sacrificing other living things (beyond just basic need for food).

    Liked by 2 people

    1. You Stated — “The only purpose of any life is life itself.”

      My Response — I disagree since most life forms exist by eating other life forms.

      the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

      If anything you could surmise that the opposite is true and conclude that the purpose of life is to eat other life forms.

      Strangely, mankind seems to be the only lifeform even remotely interested in breaking that cycle. We actively have people seeking to reduce the lifeforms we eat, with the hope of eliminating the need altogether in the future.

      Religion even envisions a life completely void of eating other lifeforms. You might say that’s the highest form of existence. One that continues the mind with no loss of life.

      Just a thought


        1. You Stated — “Let me know when you figure out how to live without food.”

          My Response — Me! LOL!! I love pizza and wine to much to be working on that project.

          Your grandchildren on the other hand will be living in a world that will have some people who have moved on from food.

          Their grandchildren will think we are barbaric apes. After that it just gets weird.

          Liked by 2 people

          1. What a hilarious video! The Jetsons were way ahead of these guys. Meanwhile, ISIS is beheading journalists for being “infidels” and the last time a human set foot on the moon was…when?


            1. You Asked — “and the last time a human set foot on the moon was…when?”

              Answer — Harrison Schmitt 1972

              Audi is currently prepping for a trip to the moon to put a base up there (so is China)
              They are both working on it now (less than 2 years maybe sooner)

              Liked by 2 people

            2. We watched the movie “First Man” the other night and visited Kennedy Space Center some years ago. It really is astonishing what they accomplished with the technology of the time. I watched the Challenger explode and waited for Columbia to fly over my home (to my sad dismay). Doesn’t seem like we’ve really progressed far since 1972.

              The thing is, money is flowing to these idealistic and futuristic programs while we still have people without safe drinking water and decent health care (including mental health). I don’t foresee your futuristic fantasies playing out. Even Wells and Orwell didn’t see their visions materialize. And the adherence to religious fantasy goes on unabated. Makes one wish to be something other than human; I’m thinking like eagle or whale.🙂

              Liked by 3 people

            3. I would have agreed with you 5 years ago but we now have a fully functional translator selling on Amazon, electric cars faster than gas, a rocket that just dropped 60 satellites in one trip, and children playing video games with their minds.

              Something happened and we are now in high gear.

              As for compassion, I fully agree with you, mankind is lacking.



            4. Sure, amazing things are happening and being created. But who really knew the ways the internet and cell phones would transform the world – nobody. Zuckerberg can attest. Social change happens more by accident than by design.

              Looking at the people who run the planet’s governments, you’d think we’re in the Dark Ages. Substitute missiles and drones for trebuchets – no big diff. And we keep doubling down on fossil fuel.

              Humans will keep living messy, inimitable lives (unless you’re North Korean, I suppose). What the future will be is…utterly unpredictable.

              The cyber-planet makes for great science fiction. Let’s revisit this chat in 2050!🙂

              Liked by 2 people

            5. You have an interesting perspective on where we are in the current age but we have been on a purposeful course not a random one. From the way you describe things I’m guessing you most likely don’t know who Ray Kurzweil is.

              The world has been engineered, it’s condition mandated through policy and it’s current direction mapped out by those who control technology and industry.

              We are not living in the dark ages we are living in an age of amnesia.

              Without amnesia how could so few control so many and no one remember how we got here.

              From the way you talk we have wars for no real reasons, but I know that’s not true because I Remember where the moneys going and who’s getting rich.

              You think Zuckerberg was a happy accident of technology but you most likely have no idea who he’s related to.

              Let’s agree to disagree

              Liked by 2 people

            6. You Asked — “So who’s influential relative?”

              My Response — Think less influential and more purposeful programming. Also relatives (team effort).

              Start with, Karen Kempner and Edward Zuckerberg

              On paper Marks goal is to create something where people can connect easier (simple)

              In reality he created a mentally addictive endorphin generator that has the ability to strip away mental barriers. With such physiological precision that people will hand over most, if not all, personal information about themselves and their families.

              But he’s not a psychiatrist he’s a programmer. So the thought is (by most) that he was lucky. He just stumbled across the best solution.

              But his mom, Karen, Is a Licensed Psychiatrist.

              His dad just so happens to be one of the first practices to convert to digital radiography and paperless records. Which most now know as the next wave of medical record keeping. Apple and Google are currently connecting medical practices across the US. Luck or design?

              People like Edward Zuckerberg had a vision early on, he was the person who first taught his son Mark to program. But he’s a dentist?

              Then there is Harvard, a school with connections that never fail to impress me on how many people are truly connected on the back end. From the White House down to local business.

              My thoughts are that people group together to make things happen not “things happen willy-nilly”.

              There is no conspiracy just people with influence and connection making things happen in a way they think is best for the rest of us.

              But do they really know what’s best for us?

              This is one of those topics where we will just have to wait for the future to know who’s right about it.

              Time tells no lies.

              Liked by 1 person

            7. That’s a really good point. I didn’t know anything about his parents til I just wikied it. But that’s a stretch to connect it some sinister, higher plan. Ya think?

              Liked by 1 person

            8. You Stated — “But that’s a stretch to connect it some sinister, higher plan. Ya think?”

              My Response — But that’s the rub, it isn’t sinister, it’s just what’s best for you.

              Look at it from your perspective. Parents take children to church, because they believe it’s best for them. Nothing diabolical just a logical step for those who think they know best.

              People in elite circles with similar learning move toward a predictable path with resources aligned to promote common ideas.

              Think of it this way, most people in politics are lawyers, that’s not a conspiracy it’s just engineered that way over time. It becomes more natural the more we do it.

              The tech field is saturated with scientist and doctors. We even now have a “Data Scientist” branch in the tech industry. We are literally using the data of “addiction” to create products for children.

              The food industry is saturated with engineers. (not farmers and nutritionist) Think high fructose corn syrup, one of the greatest food engineered products ever created (how much good is it doing Oo). Was it sinister to make it? Nope, but look at the harm it’s causing.

              There is no higher plan. We are just moving in a direction to make money in a system designed to get better at what it does the longer it does it.

              But what are we doing?
              What are we getting better at?


            9. But what are we doing? What are we getting better at?” I can’t think of anything. Believing belief is real?Buying things? Infighting—again?Better at being distracted from truly living?


            10. You Stated — “My 9 year old brought home her progress report. Half of it is how well she’s conforming to the group. “

              My Response— And there it is, elegant and subtle

              Liked by 1 person

            11. Not sure how to handle this. She got a 4/4 in citizenship. I thought I was doing better than that. However, that is another rub. Padded affirmation agenda points

              Liked by 1 person

            12. It’s just one of those larger than life topics.

              “The purpose of life”

              We could talk about it ad nauseam for days and get nowhere.

              I suspect there will be an opportunity to converse or even debate with Eilene on a more down to Earth topic in the future.

              Maybe even something more fun like why wine is better than beer but less interesting on a molecular level.


      1. Let me clarify my original intent about the purpose of life being life itself, i.e. living.

        Sometimes living means killing, suffering and dying. Living also means seeing beauty in the world, procreating, experiencing joy and the full range of emotions.

        We should be embracing the experience of living without burdening ourselves with the lofty notion that we have some “greater purpose”. How many lives have been ruined by the belief that “I’ve missed my calling.”?

        Liked by 2 people

        1. I would guess that some people’s reason for living is to find others that will believe the way they believe. Can you believe that? And yes, I missed my calling because of belief that was forced on me as a child

          Liked by 1 person

        2. You Stated — “How many lives have been ruined by the belief that “I’ve missed my calling.”?”

          My Response — Less than have been ruined by fast food and binge tv.

          The point being that life is what you make it, there is no one size fits all. Some people want to have a “greater purpose” and that’s fantastic while others just want to play video games and that’s equally great.

          But again we can agree to disagree on this since the purpose of life is not going to be solved by the two of us today.

          Liked by 1 person

  6. You Stated — “then live a life fighting back nature vs accepting things as they are”

    My Response — I don’t think we are fighting nature as much as we run over it if it doesn’t align with what we want. This is to say that I don’t think we even consider nature as a factor. We just want or need and then steam roller in that direction.

    This is also the same as our consideration of other people.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Well in that regard, true. I was thinking more of fighting death by making up stories of heaven. I’ve pondered this a lot lately, but why never the same did twice? Outside of Israel for 2000 years this god was unheard of around the world, while indigenous people of every kind had many core beliefs in common. But not this one. Makes ya wonder.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. You Stated — ” I was thinking more of fighting death by making up stories of heaven.”

        My Response — I see this as the opposite being true. Religion doesn’t fight death it embraces it. Religion programs people to accept death. In some cases it teaches people to even speed it up a bit (Waco, millenarian cult, Jonestown, etc)

        Religion wants people to give up resisting death.

        Just a thought

        Liked by 1 person

          1. Yes I did, Very Interesting and a great help for what I’m looking for, thanks!! We’ve been so busy doing thanksgiving that I hadn’t had time to follow up with you.

            My plan is to send you an email later today. My wife is trying to keep me away from the computer as much as possible this weekend.

            Sorry for the delay.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. I have some thoughts on this that we can hopefully talk about when we get a moment on the phone.

              I would also like to share the brain app with you (it’s free). I find it very useful to keep up with all of this. I will post it later today when I send you my contact info.

              Liked by 1 person

        1. Seems religion created a reason to fear death, then offered a solution. It’s a great selling technique. Fearing death is not natural as illustrated by many accounts of indigenous societies, even very recently.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. You Stated — “Seems religion created a reason to fear death, then offered a solution.”

            My Response — I think it was more of capitalizing on an already existing fear. They want to have people believe they can trust death. If they can remove the fear then you can do anything they ask (suicide bomber for instance)

            There’s no religion I am aware of that wants anyone to fear death.

            Many that want you to fear consequences of actions (especially if they don’t line up with theirs), but not death.

            You don’t even have to die to face a consequence. Remember that preacher who stated that floods were happening because of homosexuality.

            Religion wants fear of behavior with no hope of escape, especially when it comes to death. It was one of the first things religion hoped to eliminate from the beginning.


            1. Did you know your a fallen sinner and will have to pay for those wrongs when you die? Here, I have a solution. I do see your point (that’s 2 now) haha. But that is the end of every failed apologetic argument. What if you’re wrong? Do you want to chance that?


            2. So this is a great point. Religion is efficient at using consequence to control individuals. Remove the fear of death (the great equalizer) and instill a fear of consequence for the soon to be immortal.

              But to address the “apologetic argument” which, by the way, is a scripted canned argument used in most religions (not a new concept).

              1) You will live forever
              2) You will pay forever
              3) You must follow our ways to avoid paying

              Break any part of that formula and religion fails to control an individual.

              Think of it this way, from an Atheist perspective people don’t live forever (religion broken).

              Strangely, a bible literalist does not believe in consequence since that was already paid for (religion broken).

              Also strangely enough Buddhist don’t follow any one way. They evolve over time and are open to all ways, so again (religion broken)

              Liked by 2 people

            3. Think of it this way, from an Atheist perspective people don’t live forever” At this point if seems as though atheism is merely an awakening. The scene then develops from a clean slate without the influences of the experts and men of words. The universe is unfolding much stranger, more unique in completely different ways than monotheism has accounted for. There may be a god of some kind, but the definition has been hijacked by religion. Life—we are somewhere in between death…

              Liked by 3 people

            4. You Stated — “At this point if seems as though atheism is merely an awakening.”

              You Stated — Atheism is only a position on whether a God exist.

              The “awakening” could be an individual experience but would not be universal to an atheistic perspective.

              Some people (theist or atheist) experience the phenomenon of becoming more awake.

              The awakening tends to lend itself to certain people who then suddenly find themselves no longer fitting in with almost any group.

              Fragmented people rapidly becoming more enlightened via direct experience, education and conversation.


              Liked by 1 person

            5. As far as awakening goes, I have several readers here that have had the experience (myself included) Basically a sharp realization that everything you ever believed was false. Not just the religious aspect, but a virtual 180 in life.
              Not sure if that’s typical, but certainly is here.

              Liked by 2 people

            6. Same here and with people in my circles.

              A friend of mine said the other day it was like everything he knew was wrong. He blames most of it on my blog site lol.

              Although a number of them had a zero position on god before it happened (like myself) and now we have a position moving toward God.

              Also the opposite is true, some were religious and now are not.

              We all seem to share a desire for more direct experiences and deeper information. Other than that there are no immediate similarities. No real political alignments, no singular doctrine, etc.

              I also noted that the hate drops off after one becomes more awake. The people in my circles have changed dramatically on their views in relation to LGBTQ, class and race. I am talking full on acceptance.

              I’m not sure what is happening but it’s not happening to everyone. It’s slowly happening to a small percentage spread out across all groups.

              Evolution? Divine Inspiration? Information Overload?

              Not Sure Oo

              Liked by 1 person

  7. Do we fear death?
    Perhaps some do. Most don’t because “it only happens to others”.
    Then, we wake up and accept death as inevitable.
    What of the fear?
    Oh, after accepting death as something we cannot out-run, we fear the manner in which we meet death – that is something most people fear.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. We also fear being homeless, spouses, large dogs, clowns, ghost (real or not), the dark and so on.

      Maybe fear isn’t the problem, maybe education is the problem. The more educated a person is the less they fear. We also don’t seem to learn from our mistakes at an acceptable rate of speed. So we need more education and the ability to retain and use the information at a much higher level than we currently have.

      Maybe merging with computers?

      Just a thought


        1. So you say, based on belief or actual observation and comparison with nature? Off the top I could give you a dozen obvious reasons why man is a thoroughly unnatural creature but you’ll need take the red pill to accept what is right before your eyes.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. I agree with you Sha’Tara man is the most “unnatural” creature on earth. All of Nature follows self-perpetuating laws that govern their communities. Man alone has individuated and ceased to work in harmony, either with his species or the rest of Nature.

            Liked by 2 people

            1. Thank you Wendy. My thoughts these past couple of years have been focused on deconstructing the problems with faith. Turns out at the end of the road it isn’t what we believe that is the problem. It is that we believe that is the problem. Believing has become the pinnacle of virtue and it’s simply conviction of a thought, an idea that sounds cool, without evidence. That belief sponsors the right to condemn a man for his genetics, and a host of other worldly ill. If humanity is to survive, it will be by transcending belief mode and it’s limitations on the human mind. So glad you stopped by. https://jimoeba.wordpress.com/2019/10/05/10816/


            2. I may just, or I just may… have figured out what you mean when you use the term “believe”. [[It’s not what we believe, but that we believe]]. The problem with that is, we are believing entities, creatures, whatevers we be. Belief is part of how we operate. If someone, or a group, always misuse their hands to cause damage or grief, should we cut their hands off, or is there another solution? My own solution to the dilemma long ago was to restate it this way: believe all things (that being the normal approach), believe IN nothing. I still see it as, it’s not the believing that’s the problem, it’s the separation of beliefs into categories of right and wrong belief which leads to endless judgment and condemnation.
              It’s not believing, it’s believing in. When you make your lunch in the evening it’s because you believe you are going to go to work in the morning, you will get hungry and around noon, far from home, you will need to eat. That belief, and it can only be a belief, did not steer you wrong and did not cause any additional problems to the world. It was a correct belief based on previous experience and subsequent expectations.
              When it comes to believing IN, that’s a whole different kettle of broiled potatoes. Believing IN means that I accept that something physically unverifiable or boldly propagandized is greater than myself, is owed my allegiance, is entitled to my slavish support and total obedience with the hoped-for results that this all-powerful entity has my personal well being at heart. Something like that. This sort of thing transcends religion though. Man puts the same belief IN money, in itself a worthless invention meant for control, and IN “the state” in the form of patriotism as well as IN local, national or international judicial systems even knowing that finance belongs entirely to plutocrats and the government and its justice system is equally rigged in favour of the rich and elitists. Gods, governments and gold (as rawgod periodically reminds us) is the belief game predicated on rewards versus punishments. Any one of the three will do although most people still insist on supporting all three legs of this unholy trinity of powers.
              Your game, Jim, is to collapse one power leg on the three-legged stool of powers but I was shown that this can never be allowed to happen by the other powers simply because a three-legged stool cannot stand if it allows itself to lose one leg. Government and finance will always come to the rescue of institutional religion; will always allow it to function within the system even when some bits and pieces are persecuted for show, as was the case in the USSR and in China, and is still the case in some areas. You cannot destroy religion without destroying the powers and that means destroying civilization, lock, stock and barrel… and I’m totally OK with that. Bring it down but make sure you don’t play favourites: bring the whole thing down! Become an anarchist!

              Liked by 1 person

            3. Certainly beliefs like you mention are necessary for day to day operations, but belief as a virtue is quite possibly the biggest problem facing humanity. I think you mostly get what I mean (close) Monotheistic thought and the simple requirements of their version of dumb-down attainment have hijacked a useful tool and made it the gold standard of of being, stunting potential. We’re told this belief is the epitome of arrival, so we have gone nowhere. On the other hand, finding peace through fighting is not going to do it. Taking sides is not going to do it. Like someone here said before, humanity is calcified. The identity of self, egoism, long ago has drowned out our potential for the better reality. Im working on conveying this thought, but the tried and failed is not the solution. I can’t go back.


            4. “I can’t go back.” Indeed, those are the words of the change agent. I don’t think you are at all wrong, your are pushing against something monolithic in structure; a Herculean task. I am actually working with you on this. Different path, different language, and a need to clarify as we push through this man-made jungle. I just finished reading one of a series of short stories in a book called “Wastelands”- Quote at the end of the story (which reminded me of Greta Thunberg): “[She is only sixteen.] She knows nothing of the savage inertia of destruction, that once set in motion in a civilization is as hard to stop as a disease. She cannot change the world. It’s too old, too entrenched, too vicious, too there. She will fail. There is no force stronger than destructive inertia. (brief quote from “Stories of the Apocalypse”)
              I looked at our power structure, how it stands over us, how it’s set up and I deduced, several decades ago that the only way to “change the world” was to bring down the entire three-legged structure because, as I pointed out earlier, they represent three “forces” that have calcified humanity on Earth, and despite enormous enmity and deadly competition, know they need each other to maintain their power over us and our world. These forces are now embedded in civilization and not eradicable without destroying the whole thing. I too spent many years writing and speaking against organized religion. I rejected the three Pauline anchors of belief: faith, hope and love and because he state that love was the greatest, I particularly rejected all aspects of love which I replace with compassion. Then I saw the bigger picture and my personal struggle didn’t so much change direction as expanded. I’m not just committed to the destruction of organized, institutionalized religion, I’m against all of the controlling forces and their establishment tentacles throughout man’s society. This is not a game for us, Jim and I’m “proud” to know you.

              Liked by 1 person

            5. Likewise my friend. I was drawn to your blog somehow to expand a couple of key points I couldn’t put to words. I remember I sort of bullied my way into a couple of conversations before I got to know you, but those conversations were the spark I needed. Thank you. My blog is a record of my personal growth and I can chronologically see the changes. Atheism only gave me a blank slate (religion was a giant part of my life for most of it) then in a flash I saw everything. It’s taken a while to put those thoughts to words. A year ago I cracked the code. I read my post (my wife called it my swan song) to her and I was quitting blogging. Well, here I am. Haha. What’s funny is I don’t really feel like writing anymore about it, but the people I love are here. Some were instrumental in jolting me to ask “what if I’m wrong”. I’d been believing bullshit for so long I couldn’t imagine it out of my life. Such is the way of belief. From the neurology of it to the physical and the outcomes. I have a post in the que called “Automatic Rebuttal Syndrome”. Haha. A little taste of life as a Christian. Faith allows us to automatically formulate a rebuttal without listing to the comment. Thanks for the compliment. There are many legitimate ways of being in the world. Hoping we salvage one or two while missionaries still flood what’s left of diversity.


            6. ”Pitiful little band of drunken reprobates.
              We have all changed in unexpected ways. I’ve noticed a little shift from hard atheism. Initially it feels like the end of the road, but atheism is merely a reset. Bit by bit the pieces fill in a new picture I didn’t expect.


            7. I’ve never been a supporter of “hard atheism.” As you saw from my book, I no longer have any beliefs as related to “God” or gods, yet I have not and do not call myself an atheist. The phrase Universal Presence still does it for me …

              Liked by 2 people

        2. Hi, you have 3 comments that seem to address the same topic, therefore I will assume I’m to answer them.
          First one first, a bit of advice. One should never begin a discussion by using a pejorative – should go without saying. I call that the Trumpian defence. I don’t think someone is ignorant for disagreeing with me, nor am I being ignorant by saying something another strongly disagrees with. Discussions do not begin with complete agreement, they expose different, often opposite, viewpoints. So, the first comment is taken care of.
          Why is man not a natural creature? Well you commented with the question: “What does “natural” mean?” From all I’ve read on the subject, and a long life of observation of nature up close, it seems there is agreement that “nature” is what is untouched by man. We could perhaps leave some aboriginal people out of the equation, but definitely anything touched by “civilized” man is no longer natural. No longer pristine as the saying goes. When civilized man passes through nature he leaves pollution, destruction, vandalism and death… death in spades. Nature doesn’t kill wantonly… and this brings me to my reasons why I say that man is not a natural creature. For that we only have to compare man’s doings with those of nature in general. Agriculture: unnatural. Cutting down trees or extracting other “resources” to build houses, office complexes, entertainment centers, government centers and all the rest. Building cities to enjoy increasingly artificial lifestyles removed from nature. Power grids to keep those cities going and pushing for more even knowing these things are entropic. Motorized transportation on land, sea and air. Incarcerating children in so-called education institutions for a quarter to a third of their entire lives. Incarcerating people in prisons. Plethora of health care institutions and professional providers. Legal systems. Constitutions. National borders. Languages that have to be painstakingly taught. Various disciplines of “science” so-called that also have to be taught, only to be manipulated by those in power. Maintaining military forces whose sole purpose is to destroy life and lands. Nature does none of those things and has need of none. And finally, how about this: people wear clothes, whether they are needed or not, because they can’t stand the sight of one-another naked, or because they can’t control their lust for one another or… what’s the real reason again? Wasn’t it a god who once forced a man and a woman to wear the skins of a freshly killed animal? Man practices misogyny and racism: seen any of that in nature? Man enslaves members of his own species and preys upon them endlessly – natural? Man steals and murders. I’ll close with: man is saddled, like it or not, with a conscience that tells him when he’s doing right from wrong – and it does not matter in the least how much Neo-Darwinists would like to deny that, or find some double-speak to make it disappear: it won’t. Morality, at least some sense of morality (on which all of man’s laws are based) is wired in the creature’s mind. When was the last time you heard a monkey or a horse say, “I won’t be at work today, I have a court case to attend.”
          There you have it, club. I won’t be defending this so if you want to tear it apart, beat yourself up.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. I would argue slightly. The Bible says the natural man is an enemy to god. The civilized man is actually the enemy to everything natural —through belief over utility.

            Liked by 1 person

            1. You have such a cryptic way of expressing yourself, Jim. You say, “The Bible says the natural man is an enemy to god. The civilized man is actually the enemy to everything natural —through belief over utility.” Strange comment to my ears/eyes! What is “the natural man” in this context? In the biblical context it was anyone who did not have faith in Yahweh/Christ. What about today? There are a lot of “natural men” based on the biblical context so I think the statement is now meaningless, except for the fuddlementalist Christians and they so confused they couldn’t find their butt with both hands. I totally agree when you say the civilized man is the enemy of everything natural. I thought I was arguing for that in my (sorry) very long comment to club. So many terms need re-defining. What is god? Well, if we mean Yahweh, he was a very real entity (may still be); an alien technocrat and scientist with a lot of technological trickery to use with/against the tribal Earthians. His goal, Trump-like, Hitler-like, was to rule the entire world. He chose the Hebrews because they were blood-crazed and essentially immoral. He gave them certain laws to live by and thus they became “a people where once they were not a people.” He made them crazier than they had ever been. Likely the “manna” was a kind of drug mixed with a protein supplement, likely a kind of whey powder! One can go on and on speculating on the many aspects of that history.
              But today, natural people are very few and very far between, and their number is dwindling along with what’s left of the planet that can still give life to those who remained attached to nature – people, animals, birds, fish, insects, plants, rocks and the living soil. Yes, these are the enemies of the “Jehovian aliens” as the Teachers referred to the Elohim who conquered Earth for a time.

              Liked by 1 person

            2. The Kogi of Columbia hid from the Spaniards and remained undetected 500 years. They consider themselves the caretakers of the earth. They came out of seclusion to condemn modern mans treatment of their mother, the earth.
              They have no natural fear of death, but see it as a continuation of life. Totally self sufficient, needing none of the life we live. How do you control the natural man? Convince him he is evil, or convince others he is evil and have them take care of him for the good of humanity and to save his soul. Pathetic
              Amazon Outreach is still sending missionaries to convert the culture there (stable and thriving 15,000 years) to Christ. No one can be left alone. Belief is cancer. Christianity gives one a sense of self importance and disregard for all the variety and beauty in the world. Once the amazon is monochrome Christian, they will boast that god is good, while the native lives dwindle and their history disappear, now living in a cinder block house getting fat watching tv and eating prepackaged food. . It’s disgusting.

              Liked by 1 person

            3. Ever watch the movie, “At Play in the Fields of the Lord” Jim? Yes, it is sickening what is happening, but as you responded to Monica, it’s been thus since the beginning. Earthian man, the civilized creature, is a brainwashed, programmed “servant” of his alien gods. OK, I know this is fringe shit, I know, I know, but I’m convinced, at least for the time being, that “we” were designed to be the way we are. We were imbued with a need for violence, for oppression, for raping and pillaging and murdering- it was put in our DNA, it’s what we are until and unless, we clue in and do something about it. I experimented with myself and I know it is possible to break free of the programming. The Wachowskis (The Matrix) were right on the money (except for the necessary Hollywoodian bullshit violence to attract the blood-crazed numbnuts) about the programming. The allegory of the blue pill/red pill also on the money. It wasn’t a pill, for me, but I had to legally bargain to get them to shut down my implant – Ooooo… fringe, again right? But they are real, though not all powerful, and for those who wish to break free, there are legal channels that can be taken. I don’t want to go on with this, it’s beyond boring to me now. All I can say is, we are more than we are allowed to think we are. I’ve been told I was a shaman in a past life and I think I’d get along quite well with a true shaman today. Except I have an absolute aversion to any drug (except for coffee and sugar but what the hell, hm?) so I work strictly with a clear mind. My visions, such as they are, are not drug induced. Also, enlightenment isn’t one size fits all: it’s different for every seeking individual – another glaring falsehood of organized religion. Everyone of us, if we seek after a god, creates and worships her/his own god. Custom fit. The church types are the zombies. Mind-numbed, brain dead. Hence why there is no point discussing anything with them. If you don’t agree with their bit of brainwash, you’re the enemy. You are to be shunned if you won’t convert. If they have the official power, or mob power, they will kill you, your lover, your family and take for themselves what was yours. That is their unchanging ways. It’s in their programming.

              Liked by 1 person

            4. No I haven’t seen the movie, but I have read accounts from Daniel Everett and Henry Rambow. You said “ we” were designed to be the way we are. I think your close but missing a key difference. The choices available to us keep rehashing themselves over and over, even simultaneously, like actors in a play that has four or five alternate endings, and all bad.
              Are you familiar with integrated information theory, or IIT? Connecting a couple of dots one further, there is a data storage of everything that ever happened or will happen. Creative writers and musicians and so forth, tap into this stream while “in the zone” and unknowingly predict the future. Take 911 for instance. There are movies and songs and books that are clearly describing, unknowingly describing events that will take place. So called “prophets” may also tap into this stream and see a jumble of events that carry no time nor place. Think revelation, but what they say may also have been something that already happened long ago. As you mentioned a while back, no matter how far we go, we always end up back at the beginning, repeating ourselves. Rather than us being programmed, it is more likely we are just running a program. How else can we continue to be horrible even after we know better? Back to the beginning…again. We never learn (a few do, but too few) and here we are still.
              I think Revelation 18 taps into this too, where “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen”, and all trade stopped and all traffic stopped as the merchants mourned her loss from afar as the smoke of her buildings burned. I’ve never heard anyone else touch on these verses this way, but Lander and I have been talking about some of these data “coincidences”.

              Liked by 1 person

            5. Quote from your comment: “Rather than us being programmed, it is more likely we are just running a program. How else can we continue to be horrible even after we know better? Back to the beginning…again. We never learn (a few do, but too few) and here we are still.”
              I don’t get the difference between “being programmed” and “running a program.” The way I see it is, there is programming, not just for man but for the entire planet, and all the life on it. The program is written on the basis of predation so that the “evil” that is done will seem to be “natural” or “normal” to those ISSA stuck within the program matrix. As an atheist you have already learned you were being programmed (brainwashed) and you wrote off the programmer, or programmers, basically by denying they have any reality. I went there once, explored the possibility very seriously then realized it was simple denial. “Something” was manipulating life on Earth and it wasn’t just “nature” or “life” or any thing neutral. There was malice aforethought at play here and I kinda-sorta figured it out, well, with some pointed help from “the Teachers” who were well versed in these galactic and universal shenanigans. “As below, so above” was how they put it. Want to know what’s going on “out there” then pay attention to what’s going on right here. We’re not so inventive that we, Earthians, came up with all the facets of our civilization by our little lonesome: we had help, plenty of it. We are the slaves of some super bad dudes, but not just us of Earth. What we call the Patriarchy extends its powers throughout the universe.

              I think Revelation 18 taps into this too, where “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen”, and all trade stopped and all traffic stopped as the merchants mourned her loss from afar as the smoke of her buildings burned. I’ve never heard anyone else touch on these verses this way,”

              This too is a repetition; a massive deja vu, if only we remembered seeing it happen before; if only we made the connection. In New-Agey talk, the record you speak of is called Akasha. In my own reality (outside of Earth) it actually is a living entity, a super brain, or mind. There may be more than one, maybe a family, or tribe or a complex of melded minds performing this service. The point is that shamans, visionaries, prophets and writers with such gifts can tap into these records and speak or write of things they can’t know any other way. I think that Monica Timbal may be able to add to this, or clarify it for us?
              Another way of looking at this prescience is that parts of the program are pre-written to activate at certain times and some Earthian minds can read some parts of the script before it activates, hence, clairvoyance. I realize that doesn’t adequately address the points you make, but some of that is definitely over my head so I can only share what I think I know.

              Liked by 1 person

          2. Sha, you’ve shown that you are a woman (I assume) who evidently needs to feel special and that she knows some “secret” about the universe. I know you are ignorant, so I said so. Disagreement has nothing to do with it. BTW, all definitions are from merriam-webster.com

            Natural means a few things and in context with your attempt to claim humans are “unnatural”, the one that works is “occurring in conformity with the ordinary course of nature (the external world in its entirety) : not marvelous or supernatural”. This is what we start with. Your definition “untouched by man” makes no sense in this discussion.

            You are already backpedaling your silly claim with your admission that we might say that some aboriginal people are “natural”. Which is it, Sha? Does the touch of man make something unnatural or doesn’t it? Ancient people changed the earth a lot even during the what we colloquially call the “stone age”.

            You seem to be one who tries to insist on the noble savage nonsense which is based on your ignorance and fantasies. Nature isn’t a magical being. Wanton only means that something is merciless and/or inhumane, with no “just” foundation for actions; so yep, animals do this all of the time. Humans don’t agree on what is just, so we’re left with that, but that doesn’t make us “unnatural”.

            It also doesn’t make using resources “unnatural”. All animals, including humans, do this. They use resources to make homes, to change environments, to feed themselves, etc. There is no such thing as a free lunch, Sha. Never has been, never will be.

            It’s a shame that you rail against things you benefit from. What a hypocrite you are.
            So we have two things from you, use of resources is somehow “unnatural”. And civilization is somehow “unnatural”. Two failure and far les than the “dozen” you promised. No god did anything, humans wear clothes since our sun can cause cancer, weather changes, plants are prickly, rocks can be rough, etc. Animals use each other too, ants and aphids, etc. Oh and very view people use fresh skins since that would be smelly and invite infection.

            As for bigotry, yep humans have that and it is natural, though we don’t all have that since humans can learn, something else that is natural. We don’t like things different than “us”, something common in the animal kingdom. Having a conscience is natural too, since we get to learn it and that’s what animals do. We don’t have the idea of good or evil aka morals innately; the cases of feral children show that.

            Really, Sha, you need to think not just spout some magical nonsense. Your ignorance is extreme but not too surprising. As I stated before, you seem to need to feel you are special and try to find a job for whatever magic you want to believe in, and that magic has no evidence.

            No kidding you won’t be defending this since your false claims are indefensible. It’s always easy to run away when you know you’ve failed.


            1. Sorry club you just want an argument and I’m not giving you one. Keep up the name calling, sooner or later it always returns to the one who does it. It’s just a disagreement over ideas, nothing to get so twisted about. You need to look over your shoulder and knock that chip off. 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

            2. One of the things that bothers me about this entire thread, is we can easily discredit Christianity because we have field tested the words and found them lacking validity, lacking truth. I wonder if you, Club, have ever tested or tried any alternatives to this, like the meditative arts or tinkered in any of the shamanistic practices that seem too real and easily accessible to those that try them. They don’t require belief of any kind, but I know several people I trust that have nothing to prove or gain, nothing to preach that have come out of these sessions with some verifiable knowledge they had no prior awareness of. Wonder if you’ve ever done anything like this, or would even be willing to?

              Liked by 2 people

          1. not quite. our age is particularly mentally inclined, ‘mindy’. we rely solely on intellect (especially the western societies) and have lost touch with just pure ‘being’, and all the subtle energies available to us.
            there are stories that during Atlantis times, people could get out of their bodies just by having a strong sneeze, lol! the physical body was barely incarnate.

            now, even the physical body has changed, and there is a lot of grasping and anxiety in our very structure, due to our lifestyle. it is especially difficult to calm the mind.

            Rudolf Steiner, the great western esotericist, foresaw that in future times, man will be able to create offspring by voice alone (‘vac’ the power of voice). it is very possible that people were more aware of such powers in past also, and even mastered them.
            altogether another dimension of existing, my friend! we have calcified 😂

            Liked by 3 people

            1. I can agree with most of that. And the system is designed to enslave you; no time but to barely keep your head above water. I’ve heard people say they get much more out of spending time in nature than going to church. So they go out to nature once or twice a year when the other thousands have time to go to—on holiday.
              I went to glacier national park last year. Beautiful, serene, and bumper to bumper traffic with nowhere to even park. It was spiritual—like a devil in me.

              Liked by 2 people

            2. LOL!! don’t ever lose your sense of humor. it’ll take you far. yes, trees are said to contain beneficial terpenes that are calming and relaxing to us. why the japanese practice ‘forest bathing’. no doubt nature is beneficial for our bodies and mind.

              but you see, we have to decide our priorities in life, and how we choose to live. we can’t give ‘society’ all the power. and i understand how tricky that is, of course.
              but when you apply Will that comes from a deeper place, then you’ll find the whole universe will work to assist you in whatever choice you made. and then, reality changes. you are no longer at the mercy of ‘society’ or any exterior factor. but reality is molded by your vision. the more in touch you are with this inner source (call it consciousness, or will, whatever) the easier it is to shape the reality you want. this is almost… quantum alignment. nothing ‘exterior’ influences you anymore. you become the whole in itself.

              there is a saying that before enlightenment, man seeks ‘reality’. after enlightenment, reality seeks man.
              you need do nothing, it does by itself.

              Liked by 1 person

        1. The “wrongness” goes to the inception, perhaps better stated, origin, of the species. The real story of the origins of Homo Sapiens is not a popular one among Earthians, their ego and hubris cannot tolerate the truth of it. There was nothing auspicious about man’s beginnings, quite the opposite. In the future left to man, within the global collapse of civilization, he’s going to see the denouement of his bloody but essentially meaningless passage. The saddest part is, he’ll go down fighting and to the last remain clueless as to the “why” of it; why he can’t fix it and make it continue.

          Liked by 1 person

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