Interpretation of Scripture

How scripture is best interpreted through special pleading

You just don’t know how to interpret scripture”—And though it’s been said, many times and in many ways, but the truth is nobody does—or the obvious reality, everybody does! It was just never intended to be scripture.

Even the accepted schools prop up their opinions with argument on what they wish to be true, ignoring the forgeries, add-ons and bloodshed as the will of god, which coincidentally just happens to reduce the embarrassing intentional oversights… of course, everything pointed to Jesus.

The trick is to believe it before you read it. After being compelled by the men of words (the explainers) or a beautiful girl or boyfriend (to help it really make sense) we dove into the Bible to keep peace, to find good and moral principle to confirm what you already know—and to find Jesus so he can reveal himself to you (or keep the girlfriend) takes a fair amount of mental wrangling and encouragement.

Whether deliberately abstruse, or just disingenuous acceptance, the explainers will navigate you through the conundrum of faith, jumping from verse to verse and circling the failures like a London roundabout, you’ll never reach your destination but forever be tutelaged, unworthy of passage even when you’re circling the drain. Never then free to leave without the lingering threat—God will find you even when your dead and administer physical punishment to your spirit.

So you employ belief, faith, hope, for this masters game of hide and seek, this conundrical wheel of misfortune has many answers, but the answers themselves are not inspired, but shoehorned by layering faith on faith while ignoring the missteps, the epitome of special pleading.

Special Pleading; an argument in which the speaker deliberately ignores aspects that are unfavorable to their point of view.

Author: jim-

One minute info blogs breaking the faith trap.

193 thoughts on “Interpretation of Scripture”

  1. We have RVS that is where the Catholic Church put the Textus Receptus side by side to the Sinuatus Vanicanus and it is the most wicked bible I’ve ever seen. Remember I know wicked, I came from it.

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  2. The KJB is the only English Bible that is from the Textus Receptus (Out of Antioch where the Apostles preached) All others are from the Sinuatus Vanicanus (Out of Egypt, where God continually told them no to go). Please see “Compare your Bible” on the site. They are removing all things that prove God. They also rewrite those bibles every couple years removing more and more. Also see the link from Chick Publications. A man involved has completely repented from what he had done.

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  3. Ye must be born again. “churches” having come out of the Catholic Church have taken part in deception. They have COME OUT OF HER (Revelation 18:4) but they have failed in the the rightly dividing part because they did not study, they relied on man’s interpretation. First of all there is only one church. The bride of Christ “Romans-Philemon”. Being Born again is the only way a person can understand the scriptures. I am a witness to this. First a person that knew no church my whole life, turned to the Catholic Church, later fell away, returned to read a new version (NASB) with no understanding being tossed to and fro by a community of people debating every form if doctrine on Zello. I finally met a person that believed in the KJB and living by every commandment to the church in the body of Christ. Now I can prove every false doctrine wrong through the word.

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    1. So sorry brother. That’s horrible. I was beaten FOR jesus. My parents weren’t taking any chances. I’d know everything about him. Trauma is a common phenomenon to create the need, and then the hormones do the rest. Norepinephrine does wonders on the brain for that.

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        1. Well, welcome anyhow. I would bet we have a lot more in common. This shotgun thing isn’t very appealing. We both know the scripture. The difference is I also know the physiology of belief and how fallible scripture is. Field test the words…
          You were promised signs “greater that these” will follow them that believe. Let’s see some signs greater than the miracles of Jesus…or are you an imposter?

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    1. That’s a far cry from the faith monotheism. It hardwires the neurons which means we argue reason and fact against your physiology. Truth. It only happens over beliefs. Almost like the writers knew that. Why els appeal to faith with the supposed Jesus standing right there?

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      1. 1 Corinthians 2:10
        “But God hath reueiled them vnto vs by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deepe things of God.”

        1 Corinthians 2:11
        “For what man knoweth the things of a man, saue the spirit of man which is in him? Euen so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”

        John 3:6
        “That which is borne of the flesh, is flesh, and that which is borne of the spirit, is spirit.”

        Romans 8:14
        “For as many as are led by the spirit of God, they are the sonnes of God.”

        1 Corinthians 2:14
        “But the naturall man receiueth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishnesse vnto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

        1611 King James Version (KJV)

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        1. The natural man is actually a believer. Everyone believes miles of tripe every day. It’s not special. It was a near trick to reward men for doing what they can’t help but do.
          The deep things of “god” become very clear through unbelief. The mystery is there is no mystery. The universe is a happening long before anyone can account for Yahweh.

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            1. I prefer now the atheist annotated Bible. It points out the thousand or so contradictions in scripture right along with the text. Pretty overwhelming, how underwhelming the Bible is. The relevant parts could be printed in a pamphlet.

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            2. That’s because you are not rightly dividing the word. That’s where my site will come in useful. Our mission to help the millions of people(Christians mostly) that have not srudied to show themselves approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed.
              2 Timothy 2:15

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            3. Millions need help deciphering the hairsplitting excuses even the professional apologists and Dr’s of religion can’t agree on.
              I’ve rightly divided the word for forty years. I’m happy now I don’t have to pretend.

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            4. Sorry … word games don’t work. You plainly stated: “I’m happy I finally know the complete truth.”
              Logic says there would be no need for you to study if you already know “the complete truth.”

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            5. Your logic is not based on facts. Is it logical to you that person such as myself raised up in a demonic kingdom would love and worship God? Does it makes sense having been a victim my entire life of drugs, sex, beatings, being tied to a pole as if I were a dog, etc…..and all kinds mental issues forced on me as if they were mine, resulting in me hating every single creature God created and lived only to distroy everything that was beautiful and today I am of a sound mind loving everyone and everything because I believed on JESUS?

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            6. Whether you are of sound mind I’d debatable, I would give the corredor to you. In spite of all you’ve been through you found your peace. I’ve found mine without religion, so logically I cancel you out. Beyond a doubt people hold the power to their wholeness.

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            7. Any time. Go easy out there.
              The impression somehow prevails that the true believer, particularly the religious individual, is a humble person. The truth is the surrendering and humbling of the self breed pride and arrogance. The true believer is apt to see himself as one of the chosen, the salt of the earth, the light of the world, a prince disguised in meekness, who is destined to inherit the earth and the kingdom of heaven too. He who is not of his faith is evil; he who will not listen will perish.
              Eric Hoffer

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            8. CB, I’ve heard your story (and others like it) hundreds and hundreds of time. It doesn’t make Christianity (or any religion) “real.” It’s a neurological process that can happen to anyone under the right conditions. The fact you attribute your “change” to a god is a choice you made. But it is not proof that such an entity exists. “Life-changing” events happen everyday that are not the result of “finding god.”

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            9. Good luck to you. Nobody can change their personality, or consciousness. But through faith we can learn to hide it.

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            10. Ok, go to main control page. It lists stats, activity, plans, etc. Scroll down to settings. Open settings and scroll down to discussion. That where you turn them on.

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            11. I’ve never seen another religion tell you man is wicked. ALL men, not just other men. We are all wicked and unless a believer opens his heart to his wickedness he does not have the truth.

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            12. That just isn’t true. Many people are genuinely awesome. Your deprecated dogma is wrong. In fact, this level of humanness is how the Christians settlers of the early 16th century described the native Americans. How are they now after 500 years of Christianity?

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            13. I’m not going to allow you to preach and quote nonsense unless you can display a level of proof and discussion. Pasting nonsensical scripture only proves you can be manipulated. Nice work.

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            14. Matthew 13:15
              “For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

              King James Version (KJV)

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            15. Psalms 115:6 Context

              3But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. 4Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. 5They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not: 6They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not: 7They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat. 8They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them. 9O Israel, trust thou in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.

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            16. Revelation 9:20 Context

              17And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. 18By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. 19For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. 20And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

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            17. You worship the two ultimate graven images of all time. The Bible and the cross. It’s funny you can’t see that, but who can simultaneously worship something and also think for themselves?

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            18. I don’t lie at all. I have no reason to. My openness is laid out for everyone. You’ve simply convicted yourself and your belief here. Personally, I think without making excuses for all the debasement of Christianity that people are pretty awesome overall, including you. But your belief has not made you more loving or tolerant, but the contrary.

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  4. Hey Jim, a fine question for u:

    If the book of Romans was a forgery, how should it then read? In other words, WHAT is wrong with it……

    Before you answer, I suggest u actually weigh such a question.

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    1. I will get to Romans in a moment. First you would have to convince me that everything you’ve been saying you actually believe. Saying something so obvious, that is not true, now you want to discuss with me something That we can’t prove it’s not a forgery? If you really believe the earth is flat, how can we have a dialogue on the book of Romans and suppose you any credibility whatsoever?

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      1. I only used the word ‘flat’ in describing the state of Florida and even Kansas for that matter.

        I prefer the word Stationary- that the earth is death still/ just as it appears/ and just as it is/ with rivers flowing, and NOT the river beds beneath them!!

        I live in the world of facts and logic- I don’t need a thousand blind ‘scientists’ to lecture me, no rather, lie, that ships disappear over an imaginary curve.

        The sun and moon and stars above, move over a stationary earth- just as they appear. It is you who has been brainwashed since birth to ACCEPT that globe ball on the teachers desk that is indefensible.

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        1. But even tough you prefer stationary, that too, is false. At my house in Panama I can see the North Star and the Southern Cross at the same time in the night sky. It’s pretty cool. We are in fact orbiting the sun. Are you familiar with the mathematics is takes to launch a deep space probe from a 66,000 mph launch pad to intersect another planets orbit. I head to where the planet will be several months down the road.
          Your river problem is no problem. Earth atmosphere is 100k thick. Shrink that down to the size of a ball and it’s relative thickness would be like a thin coat of shellac on a bowling ball. Your under thinking the massive size and the effects of gravity and atmosphere. It’s bigger than your brain.

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        2. Back in March of last year we finally got a good look at gravitational lensing. Basically it’s the backwash created in space by galaxies, planets and so forth, moving through the fabric of space. The wake of the moving system bends the light behind it. It’s moving all right, and so are we.
          Your old prophets myopic view couldn’t outsmart Einstein with their authoritatively wrong interpretation of the cosmos. There are many many things they believed that were not true. Your god is getting smaller.

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          1. Sorry Jim- but it is you who is referencing scripture as to cosmology- not me.

            Face reality Jim. There is NO curvature in the state of FLORIDA.

            If FL was a sea of water- there would still be ZERO curvature. This makes Bill Nye the science Guy a proven fraud.

            This proves alleged satellite imagery forgeries perpetuated by fish eye lens.

            But more Jim. Science, true science that is, relies on things repeatable and testable- and observable- FLORIDA is dead flat- i don’t care what NASA says or promotes- if it was 700 miles of water- there would be NO curve.

            It’s you Jim who is ignoring reality.

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            1. Hahaha. You’d have to convince someone you actually believe your own nonsense before getting them in the water.
              For an observer on the earth, objects move from east to west (this is true for both northern and southern hemispheres) concurrently. More accurately put, when looking north, objects in the sky move counter-clockwise. Though all objects rotate in the sky, the observed path stars make in the sky depend on the observer’s latitude. You can see this clearly from the equator of this round globe of earth. You don’t have to read the conspiracy science to know you are wrong on all counts through belief.

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            2. You are working entirely tooo hard jim to justify nonsense.

              Try answering: HOW can the entire state of Florida be a plane and a ball at the same time???? (remember my point about ants walking on basketballs………..)

              Huge fail on your part. Try to explain it away- you cant- except on paper. Go ahead and live in the world of delusion- I live in the real world.

              But maybe some of your friend here can come help u bail out.

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            3. Florida follows the curvature of the earth. Pretty simple. Ants is a simple calculation regarding their physiology. Ants use their claws to cling to jagged features of the surface. … They also have special, sticky pads between their claws that can form a tight seal with a smooth surface. Look it up. Your whole argument is based on your anatomical ignorance of the ant. 🐜 Better yet, get your own microscope and look at the feet of an ant for yourself.

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            4. jim- you are burying yourself. Its rather embarrassing to see you try to explain that horizontal and ’round’ are identical.

              Try building a skyscraper without a level. Or a plumbline. Florida is NOT globular. That is a lie that even Satan would not promote.

              I would luuuv to see one person here say that I am correct, but noooooooooo, no one has the guts to face the obvious.

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            5. Let’s go back to the ants. Something smaller you can grasp. Are you denying the anatomy of the ant to prove your ignorance?

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            6. Let’s stick to basics. Can you walk upside down on a ceiling like an ant? No. Didn’t think so.

              Florida is not globular. Deal with it.

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            7. If this is how your lord expects me to think, I’ll pass. Straight is the gate and narrow-minded is the way, yet CS man has found it. Maybe you should get a cat scan man.

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            8. If u think you are mindlessly spinning through space, go for it.

              That may explain such dizzy thinking. ‘Gravity: strong enough to hold the oceans above you and below you- but too weak to affect a butterfly.’

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            9. Why is it important for you to believe the earth is a stationary, flat object? Most bibliosos don’t take that approach. Your Bible is ambiguous on this anyway. This part of the Bible is just as wrong as many others.

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            10. We are talking about evidence Jim. The same evidence that you reject regarding the truthfulness of scripture is the same evidence you reject regarding this place called home, ie, terra firma.

              Believers who accept the global fraud are simply ignorant as opposed to stubbornness after hearing all the facts.

              The Suez Canal is 100 miles of horizontal water. Are you listening? Horizontal as level.

              Impossible according to true science and the ‘balled theory.’

              Why am I interested? Simply because it’s true, and o am well aware that earth is not one of many, but ONE, per the Creator thank u very much.

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            11. You realize the long suspension bridge columns are level, but not perpendicular to each other because of the curvature? Some flat earth.

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            12. Good gravy Jim. You seriously going with that? The Suez Canal.

              Kansas. Florida. The Great Salt Flats. Any ocean. Look up the grand strand of Myrtle Beach, USA, 61 miles of continuous shoreline- straight as a laser.

              For goodness sake don’t allow your atheism to cloud your vision.

              Let me remind you that Boll Nye the science clown ‘sees’ ships disappear ‘over the curve,’ and he is laughed

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            13. Do t be too smug about yourself. Because there is a “crest” illustrated by curvature does not mean “uphill” on a gravitational sphere. Your mind is clinging to conspiracy bs. Listen carefully—The surface of the water is equipotential. It has the same distance to the Earth’s center of gravity. It is not necessary to dig 1666 ft in the middle of the Suez Canal, only sea level to sea level and follow the flow. But it doesn’t matter. You’ll believe what you want.

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            14. For something even simpler look at the Bedford Level Experiment, where six miles of “flat earth” were demonstrated to be curved simply by using three long poles the same length with one at the three mile mark, then using a transit level showing the difference on the pole in the middle. This is not even hard. Get a clue.

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            15. Perhaps there are others reading who will say: ‘hmm, it is true that water always finds its own level, and they are called air PLANES for a reason , as in flying horizontal over a PLANE.’

              But heck, it’s only common sense.

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            16. Ignoring evidence again? It can be demonstrated a hundred ways. Suck it up buttercup. You’re wrong. This is the disappointment of faith in the The Bible, the ultimate graven image of our time.
              Remember this? The surface of the water is equipotential. It has roughly the same distance to the Earth’s center of gravity. It is not necessary to dig 1666 ft in the middle of the Suez Canal. The engineers only need to ensure the base of the canal is below sea level for sea water to flow. Both oceans are roughly the same sea level.
              There are even natural examples of connecting to bodies of water. Are those proof of flat earth too? Admitting you’re wrong would be the honorable thing to do about now.
              I see you moving the goal posts again. Special pleading are we? Hmm?

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            17. In a court of law with water as the primary witness, you would be handcuffed and told to shut up for accusations of the most egregious nature, such as the earth moving from its foundations, and preaching that a still calm lake is REALLY bending in the middle.

              Once more, I have nature, science, logic, and common sense on my side.

              The court is closed- case adjourned- I sentence u to 30 days in the hole for malfeasance: what foolish architect would build a structure in which its very foundations move?

              Not one of sane mind.

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            18. You sound like you’ve been reading the Quran. Nice. Muhammad actually describes much of this better than the old rag ever did. You are a disingenuous liar

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            19. Jim u are not a careful listener. I told u the view is not popular because mankind is spoon fed information.

              The reality applies to all men, all colors, irrelevant of religion, as the oceans of the world are indifferent to what a captain believes.

              Btw, a sea captain relies on charts- not globes where he would be lost as fog and probably run aground.

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            20. I don’t suppose you’ve ever used a sextant or an astrolabe (?) to tell the time or navigate? Charts farts, any Muslim 1000 years ago could out-navigate you in your own backyard. Reading too many pseudo science religious nuts will make you feel good, but wrong nonetheless.

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            21. You have been spoon fed a line of BS and you’re not even close to being right and now the handwaving. Looks like Mel and IB taught you well.

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            22. Orbiting @ 66,000 mph- an insane speed no one has seen, can see, or will ever see, unless of course if you count cartoons as ‘seeing.’

              Uh huh, sure Jim- enjoy the fantasy while the mother robin searches for her best since it moved since this morning……..

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            23. Go ahead and look up gravitational lensing. It’s pretty fascinating to know all of these galaxies solar systems are moving at a tremendously high speed. Light hitting the Hubble telescope that’s been traveling through space for billions of years, revealing galaxies that existed long before y’all way. The Hubble deep field is also a good find. You should learn a little bit, it would be good to challenge your tiny little faith

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            24. Good for u Ron- learning doesn’t come easy to the indoctrinated.

              In carpentry class , we took a curved bowed uneven piece of lumber and ran it through a planer- why?
              To make it smooth, even, true from end to end.

              An AirPLANE OR SeaPLANE reveals the same truth. To stay horizontal- ENTIRELY- over a horizontal surface.

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            25. It’s nice u are following along! Now go ahead and try to explain away what I just said.

              You can’t. Nobody of reasonable mind or learning can. Florida cannot be the warped bow of lying science. It is a plane, and here’s a bonus: the earth is not one more wandering star- neither is it a planet.

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            26. You never explained the Bedford Level Experiment. Dismissing contrary, concrete evidence is so christian. This will also work in Florida bonehead

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            27. I don’t dismiss it because it is irrelevant. It has long been proven a poor example by people who were careless.

              Go ahead and build a wall 10 ft long being a quarter inch off level. You won’t see it.

              Build that same wall 100 miles and see how many FEET it is off.

              Florida and Kansas cannot be simultaneously a plane and a ball.

              YOUR own calculated math condemns you. At only 50 miles/ your alleged curvature charts DEMANDS over 1.5 miles of curve. May I suggest u do the math for 500 miles?

              This should shut your mouth abruptly for promoting something in which u are clueless.

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            28. It’s not a plane. The demonstration (which you failed to comprehend) and the Suez prove that beyond doubt, that they follow basic demonstration of gravitational equilibrium from the earths center 4000 miles deep

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            29. Jim- are u intentionally stubborn? The Suez Cabal is deaf level. It doesn’t matter if the water is 3’ or 10,000’ deep.

              Sea LEVEL does not lie. Btw, years ago the British wrote in their by laws regarding train track construction. Listen carefully:

              At no time, either implied or mentioned- was there allowance made for curvature. Seems they were correct, as were the Chinese.

              Embarrassing to hold a view that says airplanes follow an imaginary curve…….. they do not- even a common bubble level remains true over extended flights.

              And of course ask any military man if he allows for instant calculations regarding bullet travel in 4 directions when his next breath may be his last. He need not be bothered with such lunacy.

              But what great faith u must have, to see the earth move being it is stationary/ just as it appears.

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            30. No curvature calculations needed because gravity is a constant as distanced from the core as I so remarkably explained. You’re failing miserably boy. You go outside and test it. Stop reading your conspiracy crap

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            31. They are your calculations! Everyone who accepts the ball MUST use those numbers:

              8” per mile squared.
              At the second mile/ there must be 8x2x2=32 inches of alleged stoppage. At the 3rd mile- 8x3x3= 72 inches of supposed curve NECESSARY for your ball theory.

              I dare say at a mere 50 miles, it is most uncomfortable for u to face the sad fact that there is NO 1.66 miles of mysterious droppage- that the lying science fraud Nye swears he can see at only 3 miles!!

              Soooo, who is the deluded one? I live in the world of reality- whereby u are convinced u can walk upside down on a ball like an ant.

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            32. You’re belief is incoherent. Curves in space are neither uphill or down, but a constant governed by the distance from the center of gravity. Nobody believes you because you’re wrong.

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            33. In a court of law where facts are president- you would be cited for contempt of court Jim.

              I presented YOUR theories ball chart needed for a balled EARTH/ not space.

              I proved the fraudulent math- and I have water as my only necessary witness. You should be glad your other readers are not coming to your aid.

              Common sense is a bitch and wins every time. FOR THE THIRD TIME, FLORIDA is not a balled piece of land. Deal with it.

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            34. Is not the earth floating in space? Even if it’s stationary as you “believe” it’s floating in space. Are you now separate from that reality too.
              Water is not your proof. Only your ignorance. Water maintains a constant from the gravities core. Proof!

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            35. And THERE lies your assumed doctrine, in which all subsequent arguments fall to earth like plastic bricks.

              Floating in space? Do you judge a bowling alley to be moving or floating because balls roll over it?

              The earth is as stationary and motionless as a mother robins nest.

              Isn’t earth exceptional? Yes, unique and very.

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            36. Did you know gravity is a bit stronger at the poles, where centrifugal force is less than the equator? Did you know you weigh less on mount Everest than at sea level because you’re farther from the constant? Eventually, as you leave the gravitational pull from the core you become weightless. Your math is someone else’s conspiracy theory. How does it feel to know everything you believed is dead wrong?

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            37. Have you ever considered how fast the stars must be moving to rotate around a stationary earth? 66k MPH would be nothing. They would be moving billions of miles per second.

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            38. @CS

              If the earth is flat, how come I can’t see the 40,000 sq mi island of Cuba (~230 miles away) from 30,000 ft above Miami, but can see the football field-sized International Space Station soaring over 248 miles above me from my own back yard?

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  5. “I mentioned that it was interesting, a group like the Kofan could choose from between 80,000 plants by the way the plants spoke to them on the night of a full moon. He said that was crazy and ridiculous. Is it? Research has shown the people were actually right, and are able to do this by the vibrations emitted from each subspecies. Vibrations we are not in the slightest bit aware of any longer.”

    I have heard of things like this, but not that specific case. Do you have a title I can look for?

    Hearing such things, I don’t know whether to be happy or sad. On the one hand, there is hope, some people can still hear and see. On the other, the Abrahamic mindset is hard to cure. And even those that ditch the religious aspect often replace it with a surrogate.

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    1. Good morning K. This is a paraphrase of Wade Davis, ethnographer from Nat Geo on one of his TED or you tube presentations. I have a long day today. I’ll see if I can get the link for you.
      I like your comment about happy or sad. Think how many of the elders feel now there is nobody left to share their language or understand what was once possible has been replaced by a cheaply bought toy with a commercialized magic trick inside with poorly written instructions.
      I have gotten lazy too, K. I used to post links and references but no proof ever matters to faith. My blog is very small. The only ones that ever read them were the choir, and instead of scholarship I write a lot of my ideas, thoughts, and opinion.

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      1. I know Wade Davis, have some of his books. I will get the information so I can add it to the hoard. I have come across so much interesting stuff lately. Wade Davis also wrote about how we can’t see Venus in the day anymore, but some of the natives he encountered could use it to navigate by day. I tried to see if I could find Venus in the middle of the day, and I just can’t. The speaking to plants thing is not just from the Americas either. It is found in the Old World, though mostly relegated to folk memory at this point. There might be some isolated peoples that can still do this. Some of the peoples in obscure parts of Russia have amazing knowledge when it comes to animals, similar to what the Kofan can do with plants.

        Here is one for you. Apparently in some parts of Finland the womb was referred to as a passage to Tuonela in certain contexts. Tuonela means the underworld or land of the dead. That lines up with other information I have about many ancient burials where the body was placed in a fetal position. And Finnish cultures are not the only ones that have that “womb/death” link, it is common. I don’t know if you are interested in that sort of thing, but I felt that I struck pay dirt when I stumbled across that in a book I got recently. I didn’t get that collection of articles for that information, didn’t even know it contained it, but it was a topic I had come across before and it really clarified things. Gave me some more connections to make.

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        1. Imagine if the Christians “went into the world” to share the gospel and found others who knew Yahweh? That would be the type of evidence I’d be very interested in. That is what leads me to pursue shamanism. It is truth, universal around the world of people who did not know of the other. This is a fascinating study on panpsychism as well. A fancy word for what indigenous people have known for millennia.

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            1. No. Thank you. I took a quick peek will have to read it tonight, or if I get a lunch today. Looks very interesting !!

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            2. It was referenced in a regular science email I get and the title caught my eye. I haven’t read it all but it looks pretty fascinating.

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            3. Well as crazy as something like panpsychism sounds on the surface to us western, indoctrinated “civilized” people, it’s pretty scientifically sound as well. My journey would be to produce a contradictory free explanation of what the evidence suggests. There is only one of those. I’ll look for that…

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  6. That’s interesting Jim that you are studying Native American spirituality. I had once talked with a Mennonite theologian who was very interested in this and studied with a medicine man. He actually wrote a book called, “Walking with Grandfather.”

    Nan, there are Christian believers who do think in exactly this way. They would envision all religions as wells which help people access the same source like an underground river, God who is the ground of all being. I am giving all of this deeper thought.

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    1. What interests me the most is the commonality of practice between different indigenous peoples all around the world. Michael Harner called it “Core Shamanism” and from what we see with the Kogi or the Kofan, the tribes of the Amazon, or the Babaylan of the Philippines, are common connections, practice, and ritual. It was universal.
      Now if Christianity had “gone into the world” and found other worshippers of Christ it would certainly be evidence in their favor.
      What we found in the anthropology is this common theme with the earth, continuation of life and spirituality in all things inert or “living” as we describe it. That they were an integral part of the cosmos. Isn’t this the evidence Christianity would just love to have? I would bet if we discover life on another planet they would have more in common with the Sioux or the Babaylan, than with Christianity. Nor will they have ever heard of him.
      I live on earth at present and I don’t know what I am. I know I am not a thing, a noun. I seem to be a verb. And integral part of the universe”—Buckminster Fuller.

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      1. Jim, I checked out core shamanism , very interesting. Do you think this could be a strong call in your life, to advocate for indigenous people, and to work to help preserve traditional languages and other cultural practices before they are all gone?

        Here is another interesting and related link.

        https://blogs.elca.org/worship/857/

        Liked by 1 person

        1. I certainly advocate what I can, but really is difficult to inject in another white person trying to help. What they really deserve is to be left alone. All we can do is diminish it. It would be nice to see reparations and what not, but like Pennsylvania and Delaware were given to William Penn by the king of England to repay a debt, to repair that would take 20 million whites to move out. Haha. A little late, but allowing them to preserve what’s left , unregulated and unashamed may be all we could do. I did miss my calling all tied up defending the offenders for so many years. When I come back I want to be Wade Davis. But his is a life of heartbreak. Everywhere he studies and lives with the tribes, it’s missionaries everywhere.
          I’ve been reading an account from 1687 about the Native American and what the Christians encountered. I’ll post some quotes I’ve gathered in the next comment.

          Like

        2. This first-hand account on William Penn from 1687 telling of his interactions with the natives.
“But what is most striking in Penns delineation of the Indians character, is the often repeated eulogy of the Indians natural piety. Again and again he dwells on the fact that the Indian shames the Christian in the sincerity of his religious belief and the correctness of his moral conduct”. 
Describing the frugal meal that satisfies them, “pumpkin without butter or spice, the bare ground for a table, shells for spoons and leaves of the forest for plates”, he winds up exclaiming, “these wild men who never in their life heard Christs teaching of temperance and contentment, herein far surpass the Christian” Ten years later he goes on again with his praises; “They live far more contented and unconcerned for the morrow than we Christians. They do not over-reach in trade. They know nothing of our everlasting pomp and stylishness. They neither curse nor swear, are temperate in food and drink, and if any of them get drunk it is the fault of the Christians for the sake of accursed lucre”. They intentionally liquored the Indians to cheat them. Even when they absolutely knew that the Indian surpassed them in every way as human beings, they still sought them Christ as the only way of true living. It most certainly is not, but may soon become such through attrition—our course is set.
He said; “meanwhile, we use the wild man for day labor and gradually acquire their language and make them acquainted with the teachings of Christ ”—1687
This is the arrogance of monotheism and the conceit of faith as a virtue. We have little hope but a Herculean breakthrough of some type or another. It won’t come by belief, but by uncultured minds that don’t yet know it’s not possible.
Italics ref—Google Books
Friends Intelligencer
Vol 29, pp 68-69
Andover-Harvard Theological Library


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  7. Here I go again, trying to catch up.
    Can anyone, anywhere read and interpret anything (scripture or advice) without prejudice? I have found that re-reading things years later (not talking Bible here), they have significantly changed while I have remained exactly the same. (sure) 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

  8. Jim, if I might ask, what was your church background, and what most caused you and your wife to walk away from Christian faith. Do you feel that it was due to difficulties and inconsistencies that you saw in the Bible, or deeper issues? Please feel free not to answer this if it feels too personal. I will certainly understand.

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    1. Before I would share that info, let me tell you why I typically have withheld it. It didn’t start out that way, but Christians would immediately dismiss my thoughts because “well, no wonder you lost faith, they aren’t authentic, or they aren’t true Christians. And it came from every side to dismiss my deconversion. A truth will be a truth regardless of the source, but it is too easy to dismiss every other belief not your own. “No true Scotsman” fallacy is right in a way. Nobody is doing it right. In that I 100%agree.
      I was born and raised by my parents to take it very seriously. It never took me seriously in 50 years. God never spoke to me as I was never a chosen vessel.

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      1. I suppose we must come from very different backgrounds. I was reared in a more progressive church. Don’t ever remember hearing a hellfire and brimstone sermon as a child at all. Thank God. My parents were more just cultural, nominally Christian. When I did come to personal faith in Christ, I think my mom had concern that I might be going overboard. Even my pastor didn’t know what to say and changed the subject. It wasn’t exactly an auspicious start. 😁. But, we can’t drag others to where we’re at, that’s for sure. Know you can’t agree, but I feel that God works differently in all our lives. No two spiritual journeys are ever the same. I want to honor that. Appreciate your honest sharing even if we don’t always agree. It’s good to hear different perspectives and hear food for thought.

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        1. No two spiritual journey are the same, yet society tries to shoehorn in about five different, ready-made, prepackaged dogmas as one size fits all. There used to be countless ways of being in the world, yet as we speak groups like amazon outreach aim to destroy the remaining few with the gospel of Christ. I know they mean well, but the monochrome world we are aiming for will be bland beyond measure where everyone thinks in Christian and better ways of being are erased by the winner.

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          1. Jim, my undergraduate major was cultural anthropology, so I’m very interested and open to indigenous cultures. Let me ask you this? Do you think it’s possible to contextualize the gospel, to share Christ in a way that does not destroy these cultures and traditional ways of life? I think part of the problem is that missioners tend to want to share western ways of life and practices along with Christ.

            But, we had an interesting discussion today in Sunday School class relating to the thinking of CS Lewis.

            Could people in other cultures through their own sincerely held beliefs and religious practices be connecting with God in Christ in ways that we don’t know or understand through their own traditional practices, even though they don’t perhaps think in ways that we would consider officially “Christian?”

            This question engendered lively discussion, so I’m also interested in your opinion, and that of your readers here.

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            1. Why would they need to “connect with God in Christ”? Why wouldn’t their religious beliefs be just as authentic as Christian teachings?

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            2. Well the short answer is yes it possibly could be done, but never has been nor attempted as far as we know. Even the goal is to strip away the superstitions, which is just a complete lack of understanding the possibilities that this world has to offer. Monotheism isn’t very tolerant of more than one.
              This week at work I was involved in a conversation with a Christian man, and it turned towards this topic. I mentioned that it was interesting, a group like the Kofan could choose from between 80,000 plants by the way the plants spoke to them on the night of a full moon. He said that was crazy and ridiculous. Is it? Research has shown the people were actually right, and are able to do this by the vibrations emitted from each subspecies. Vibrations we are not in the slightest bit aware of any longer. Yet after thousands of years Christianity has reduced them to “noble savages” because it teaches there is only one legitimate way to god. Their way.
              It’s heartbreaking really, and likely too late to change it. But the possibilities outside of your faith are remarkable and truly legitimate ways of being. The ethnosphere is dying, and our perceptions of the world are limited to a handful of views.
              These past few weeks I have been studying the Native American medicine wheel. Funny, right? But it just so happens it incorporates the varieties of being into a philosophical wisdom embracing every man and his independent journey. It actually contains the wisdom of every great culture and rites of passage and wholeness. But we reduced them to savages before taking the time to see they actually had a better system than us. Christianity can be judged solely on the outcome. It started afoul and has never produced the promised results. A medicine man actually could. But I do think Christianity has its purpose. It preoccupies the masses with endless conjecture while we enslave ourselves by choice while simultaneously thinking it’s the bomb.

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  9. The trick is to make the text say what you want it to mean. In practice what the early Christians did was take a snippet of some Jewish text(usually from the Greek translation) and interpret it to mean something significant to their doctrines. For example, this from Numbers 24:
    17 I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near— a star shall come out of Jacob, and a scepter shall rise out of Israel; it shall crush the borderlands of Moab, and the territory of all the Shethites. 18 Edom will become a possession, Seir a possession of its enemies, while Israel does valiantly. 19 One out of Jacob shall rule, and destroy the survivors of Ir.”

    That was said(and still is) to be referring to Jesus. Jews thought(and still do) that this referred to their messiah as well, so it is natural that Christians would want to claim it. But they only paid attention to the smallest or most superficial details. Where Jesus crushed Moab or conquered Edom(7th century BCE states), or where he destroyed any survivors, that is left unsaid. It is my view that even the Jewish messiah concept is an imposition on these texts. There was no single “Messiah” to the writers at the time. They promised rulers or deliverers associated with different political situations and times, and often they contradicted each other. For a long time, there were two messiahs expected, of Joseph(northern tribes) and of Judah. The Samaritans believed that Moses would return to lead them to greatness. When Sabbatai Zevi converted to Islam, his followers found verses to justify the idea that the messiah would convert. It just never ends.

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  10. Christians, and all theists, have their magic decoder rings that tell them that they and they alone are the one person who knows what their god really wants, and surprise that this god mysteriously agrees with them and only them.

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    1. After a long, long conversation with Wally he finally admitted it was a woman that got him to believe. But now he really believes (hence the delve into apologetics to prove to himself he wasn’t hoodwinked by hormones).

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        1. Sunk cost fallacy. It’s a pretty difficult bind to be in, for sure. I was lucky. I told my wife what I wanted to do and she had already done her own personal deconversion but hadn’t told me yet. Her timing in this was uncanny.m as we hadn’t seen each other for a few weeks We dumped all of our religious books and crap in a pile in the yard and had a bon fire. It was very therapeutic.

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    2. There can only be one “truth”- ours! This is what separates “us” from “them.” We are the holders of the “real” truth, everyone else’s “truth” is just bullshit!

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      1. The amount of actual truth in the world is disparate by tenfold to the amount of bullshit. And what IS true would be true to believer and non alike. Belief is inconsequential to truth.

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      2. the “us” vs “them” is required for religion. There always has to be those that don’t have our “truth”.

        oh, I just had a Chrisitan tell me that “unconditional” means that you can’t get it unless you are given it aka “unconditional” love doesn’t mean love with no conditions. it means that you can’t do anything to get this love at all. It is only the decision of this god.

        such complete idiots

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    3. It is truly amazing to me how two (or more) people can claim ‘divine revelation’ and the message be complete polar opposites of each other. It boggles my mind. How can an omniscience god not get a basic message like ‘sex before marriage’ clear?

      Liked by 3 people

  11. Matt Dillahunty brings up the story of when he was addressing a church conclave and he brought up the fact that when Moses was trying to free his people from Egypt that the king relented but then “God hardened his heart” and he refused to let them go (a number of times). They said, no, the king hardened his own heart. Matt picked up the Bible on the podium, flipped to Exodus, found the phrase and read it to them “God hardened Pharaoh’s heart.” They still insisted that he couldn’t interpret scripture correctly and that the king hardened his own heart.

    Hard to argue with that. Apparently god has hardened their brains.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. Another piece I like in this theme is god repenting he had made man, hence the flood and wipe out of every living thing. I wonder if in future heaven for trillions of blissful years he might just get bored and end the whole show again. Can god really be trusted with my eternity?

      Liked by 3 people

      1. So then did God make a mistake? If, as the Bible would have us believe, he became disgruntled with his creation and decided to start all over again, doesn’t that qualify as a mistake? If so, how does that comport with his “perfection” and, most importantly his “omniscience?”

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        1. This is simply what happens when you tell a lie or make up a story without thinking it through. You know, I’ve had ideas that I thought were great, then someone with better reasoning skills than mine come along and point out the contradiction

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    1. Re-writing the Bible has been done time and again over the centuries. It is much easier than trying to explain a concept on which the text isn’t “clear” enough (read: comports with your meaning.) King James intentionally altered text in order to justify the witch burnings, and Darby made sure that the “tribulation” and “rapture” were magnified in order to attract more adherents. Never mind what people like Joseph Smith and David Koresh did to deify themselves. But there’s always someone there to buy into it and therein lies the problem. We will never alleviate religion because there are too many people that need – literally need – to believe something. There’s nothing rational about it; no logic, no common sense that can penetrate the power of myth when the audience needs something to tether them to world around them. Very unfortunate indeed.

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      1. Transcending belief mode is our only hope to get out of this mess. To add on your comment, “if it’s in the Bible it’s true” is why Jerome had the world believing for 700 years that Moses had horns. They will believe anything if it’s in the Bible. Belief is a curious waste of time that is in no danger of ending anytime soon.

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  12. You’ve brought up one of the things that annoys me the most about most christian cults, how they can twist and torture and torment the bible into supporting their own personal prejudices and desires, completely ignoring the parts that contradict their beliefs and only seeing those that support them. Even going so far as completely ignoring what Jesus himself supposedly said. Look at how many of these devout christians have divorced and remarried, then look at what the bible says about it. Jesus said that anyone who divorces and remarries commits adultery, and the punishment in the OT for adultery was death, if I remember right. But if you try to pin them down about that they will come up with dozens of different “interpretations” to try to weasel out of it and claim that’s not what Jesus really meant.

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    1. School and public prayer is another one. Supposed to pray in secret. They know that doesn’t work though so they take to the streets (or the king Jesus church) to pray over their president on live tv.

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      1. You can’t sell anything to anyone if you’re praying in private! How would they know about your special communion with the Big Guy? It doesn’t matter that Jesus himself says it right in the book! Let’s get charismatic; shake on the floor, dance with snakes, lay our hands upon the needy, speak in tongues, whatever! Anything that gets the money out of their pockets and into our coffers is just fine!

        Liked by 3 people

        1. Charismatic prosperity gospel is my favorite. Those guys are the real deal. You know Osteen now charges admission to his shows? Is it wrong to take money from fools? I would think so in this case, for his promises are simply a pyramid scheme. Same technique.

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    2. Which is exactly to your point of how evangelicals and other religious leadership always seem to know exactly what Jesus was thinking or meaning when he said this or that. Many of Jesus’ specific lines are either left out or obscured so they require no explanation. Reading just the lines that scholars believe Jesus actually said (I believe the Jesus seminar came up with only around 14 or 15 or so?) puts a lot into perspective; he was a devout Jew, his entire life, never told anyone they should do anything different, period. Taught at the Temple, etc. In this sense there is no such thing as “real Christianity,” it’s called Judaism. After Paul and then further church leaders got involved they needed to make a few……”adjustments” in order to proselytize successfully; dropping circumcision, upholding the kosher laws, following the Law in general according to Deuteronomy, Leviticus, etc. Also, Jesus also was an apocalyptic prophet that believed the end times were coming contemporaneously, in his time. Boy, did that need some ‘splainin, Lucy!

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    3. Hello grouchyfarmer,
      Those are indeed cherrypicking and confirmation bias.

      Hi Jim,
      In the final sentence of your post, the definition of Special Pleading as “an argument in which the speaker deliberately ignores aspects that are unfavorable to their point of view.” is not correct.

      Please kindly go to the section named “Compromise and Subjectivity: Special Pleading and Relativist Fallacy” in my post entitled “The Quotation Fallacy”, look for the blue and hyperlinked words “special pleading” in the paragraph situated just above the 16 bulleted points, and then hover your mouse cursor over the said words to reveal a pop-up tooltip containing the full definition.

      The section can be reached at http://soundeagle.wordpress.com/2017/10/18/the-quotation-fallacy/#Compromise_Subjectivity

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  13. You’re exactly right. Several years ago, a friend of mine mentioned that his church had a Bible Study every Wednesday evening. I imagined small groups of folk sitting about discussing points of scripture. So I remarked off-handedly that it was good people got a chance to “talk” about the Bible. “Oh no,” he retorted. “We don’t talk. The preacher chooses a verse and explains it.” “But that’s not studying anything,” I said. “Sure it is,” he explained. “We study the verse before we go to church, and then he tells us what it really means, and we can see where we were right or wrong.” And the conversation was over.

    My friend, like his preacher, didn’t want to hear that his so-called Bible Study was a complete and utter farce. He didn’t want to hear any argument. Bible study, where the preacher corrects any undo interpretation of a Bible passage, is good. It brings the sheep into line, keeps the flock together, all the way to the grave. The huge irony being they’re not afraid of the dark, as they believe, they’re afraid of the light.

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        1. Thank you, Paul! I’ve been super busy building a house on Lake Winnipesaukee so I haven’t written an entire blog in a while, but I’ll get back to it soon. Thanks you, I’ll be sure to check out your blog as well!

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          1. Building a house on the lake! You’re completely forgiven. I hope all is going well. When you get it done and post some pics. 🙂
            Thank you for responding.

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  14. The “bible,” meaning the “book,” should only be read in one way, from the first page to the last page, as “god” wrote it. After all, it took him thousands of years to write it, the best readers can do is read it as he wrote it. Of course, few people would finish it, I doubt a more boring book was ever written.

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    1. It was never meant to be scripture,, let alone a continuous front to back book. All the relevant parts of the Bible could be written in a pamphlet. There’s a project for you….ease you back into Jesus?

      Liked by 2 people

    1. “Holy sprite” – there’s some divine elf involved now? Or or we talking about a supernatural god in a soda can?
      I like the intentional misspelling – since religion is all weirdo nonsense to me, I enjoy the absurdities the most.

      Liked by 3 people

    2. I do have some kind of holy, whether it’s cow, shit, or holy cow shit I cannot say, for bias still stands in the way. (Jeff is teaching me poetry). Alls we have here is a hole filled story, not spirit or sprite

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    1. Notes To Ponder, thanks for putting up that link. Holy cow that’s frightening. It doesn’t surprise me, though. I know a lot of guys around here who love their guns more than they love their wives, their kids or any other family member. And treat them better. To a lot of gun rights advocates the 2nd amendment, or at least their interpretation of it, amounts to a god given right. Making the gun an actual part of the religion, venerating it and even worshipping it doesn’t surprise me at all

      Liked by 2 people

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