# Is Earth Really Flat?

For anyone confused over flat earth theology—debunking conspiracy math

Insisting the earth is flat? It matters where you get your information, but some solutions are frankly simple, and can be done on your own if you choose.

Colorstorm is insisting the earth is flat—that if it was round the Suez Canal would have to be dug out 1666 feet to account for the curvature, and for water to flow 100 miles from sea level to sea level. Without that massive dig the Suez would have to flow uphill, both directions. This is christian-think™️, where belief is steady and the flat earth doesn’t turn.

Because there is a “crest” illustrated by curvature does not mean “uphill” on a gravitational sphere. If your mind is clinging to scientific conspiracy, listen carefully—The surface of the water is equipotential. It has the same distance to the Earth’s center of gravity. It is not necessary to dig 1666 ft in the middle of the Suez Canal, only sea level to sea level and follow the flow.

For something even simpler we look at the Bedford Level Experiment, where six miles of “flat earth” were demonstrated to be curved simply by using three tall platforms the same height, with one structure at the three mile mark. Then using a transit level showing the difference on the pole in the middle, confirming a crest.

Also, did you know gravity is a bit stronger at the poles, where centrifugal force is less than the equator? Yes, the earth is spinning. Did you know you weigh slightly less on mount Everest than at sea level because you’re farther from the gravitational constant? Eventually, as you leave the gravitational pull, away from the core you become weightless like a space probe.

Finally, easily illustrated by things we see every day, the columns on long suspension bridges are level, but not perpendicular to each other. They are closer to each other at the bottom than at the top, tilting slightly away from each other on the sphere.

But none of this matters to believers that ventured down the rabbit hole of conspiracy belief. The only evidence in Colostrums Bag© of tricks, is evidence that faith is a conundrical trap made for zealots.

## Author: jimoeba

Alternatives to big box religions and dogmas

## 186 thoughts on “Is Earth Really Flat?”

1. Believe all things, believe in nothing – remains my motto. Unless you’re a NASA engineer, or designing a super high rise building, does it really matter to the rank and file whether the earth is round or flat? Does believing one way or the other change anything? Is man fundamentally a better creature knowing about curvature and gravity than he was a thousand years ago when the earth was flat and if you sailed out too far you’d fall off the edge into nothingness? To me it seems a pointless discussion. If however, the point was to arrive at some solution to end racism, or stop wars, that sort of common sense thing, then by all means, let the earth be flat; the moon a block of cheese and the stars but holes in a black shroud hiding heaven from us but allowing us the hope to one day pass through one of those holes into that great light. If someone accosted me with such ideas I would say, “Believe what you will but don’t believe it here.”

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1. This belief is to prove the Bible is true and science is a huge conspiracy. Yes it matters if the earth is round when calculations and orbits demand accurate and applicable knowledge. If we sent satellites up on colorstorms math? No bueno.
It also mattered for some odd reason, that all the ancient civilizations gave great credence to knowing the cosmos intimately and accurately. If the truth doesn’t matter here, where will it matter? Certainly not in religion when one can propagate this nonsense to justify the other.

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1. maryplumbago says:

This stupid belief (if they are truly stupid enough to believe it, rather that controversial lip service) will die out as space travel becomes more commonplace down the road into newer generations.

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1. I think he just fails to comprehend how large things are and how they work. These constants are no secret. These experiments are so simple he could do them himself, but he’d rather read conspiracy

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1. I disagree. I don’t think he “fails to comprehend.” He refuses to comprehend … because it goes against his fantasy beliefs in that late, great book that (reportedly) holds all the secrets of existence.

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1. maryplumbago says:

I agree…I often think this guy just pulls everyone’s leg, as no one can be that idiotic and still function.

Are these religious flat earthers saying it says somewhere in their bible, that god said the earth was flat?

I know the other flat earthers are just lovers of conspiracy theories.

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2. It’s true that we have more pressing social issues to worry about. However, it’s hard to ignore the fact that the flat earth claims come from the same source that proposes a supernatural entity selected one distinct human tribe among all others as its “chosen” people.

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3. that’s quite an argument for ignorance. Yes, man is fundamentally a better creature knowing how the universe works because facts are better than lies we tell ourselves.

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1. You really think that knowing more “facts” about the universe is having much effect on expanding man’s understanding of, and approach to, life? The science labs and their lab rats are busy discovering “facts” out there. Meanwhile we are continuing to promote the “free birthing” concept, proliferating like proverbial rats on a world, flat or globular, that simply cannot, being of finite construct, continue to maintain said population. So we engage in various stratagem, mostly silently, to kill millions by denying them food and medical supplies and bombing them or poisoning them by whatever means, all the while pretending that all is relatively well, or whatever isn’t will definitely be fixed when the next collection of facts is available.

The point I am making is, before we get all twisted up about whether this or that fact is superior to this or that other fact, should we not, as intelligent creatures, want to know how are these facts are conducive to making this world a better place for ALL to exist upon? Fiddling while Rome burns is what I call this line of argument. Children are being systematically starved to death in Yemen (one example) and we argue over the stupidity of flat versus round? Where is the real ignorance? If an idiot wants his planet to be flat, how is that detrimental to me if I want mine to be round? If people exercised their intelligence properly they would discover that they can be, at heart, compassionate beings. They can then engage “facts” that actually do matter. Wars matter. Exploitation and oppression matter. Climate change matters. Misogyny and racism matter. These things aren’t the sole province of religion. In fact they are much more the province of finance, corporate business and government these days.

Some things aren’t worth bothering with and the flat earthers aren’t worth my time. Intelligent people, however, are worth engaging… unless they get sidetracked into chasing chimeras. When that happens I find myself engaging one unalterable fact: there is no hope for Earthians after all as they will always plummet to the lowest common denominator of belief because, simply put, it is the easiest one to deal with or play with. It’s easy to feel superior engaging a flat earther dinosaur but it won’t change the nature of the dinosaur, it will just make the counter group feel good about its scientifically proven superiority. No different than a grade 12 graduate boasting that she beat a grade 1 student on a math test. Push someone down to make yourself feel superior. How about this: I believe that there is enough solid scientific evidence to prove no Earthian ever landed on the moon, especially not in 1969 but it doesn’t bother me that a majority still buys the story – after all it’s a really well played piece of propaganda. That probably puts me in the flat earth category but my counter is, how much better off are we all, globally speaking or even America-wise speaking because man walked on the moon? How much are we improved as a civilization? By the same token, how is the lot of the oppressed and exploited and the victims of endless resource wars improved because it is a fact the earth is round and not flat? See the point?

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1. Yes, facts, Sha, not “facts”. As Neil DeGrasse Tyson said, “The good thing about science is that it’s true whether or not you believe in it.” We can know that overpopulation is bad thanks to facts.
And no, dear, “we” aren’t doing any such thing as “free birthing” whatever that is. You might be, I am not. Neither are “we” denying people food, etc. Some might be, but your ignorant and false claims of “we” in your need to make up conspiracies you can feel important about fail.
You have no point. You want to make up nonsense to make yourself feel important. You offer false dichotomies, in order to try to downplay issues. You want facts that don’t matter to you to be ignored in favor of your continued woo. If some idiot lies and says that the world is flat, then we can’t work in this world correctly. This is a common attempt by people who make baseless claims to try to have them not confronted, a version of the god of the gaps argument. If we think that the earth is flat, then we can’t address climate change correctly.
No one cares what is worth your time or not, Sha. You go on and do what you want and we will do what we want. You want to tell people to give up on correcting people because I’m guessing you don’t like to be corrected in your silly beliefs. And yes, confronting people about the lies they believe in will change the nature of people. Maybe not all, but some, so it’s worth it.

That you are an idiot who wants to pretend that humans haven’t gone to the moon isn’t a surprise. One wonders how you explain why the Soviets went along with what is supposedly a lie when it was to their entire advantage to call out a lie like that. We gained much information from the research that went into planning for that moon landing, including the satellites that give us information on climate change. We have ways to clean water and air thanks to that mission, those things benefit people all around the world. We have advanced computers that can show us how to model climate change and how to plan for it. Here are a start to the benefits: https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/feature/Going_to_the_Moon_Was_Hard_But_the_Benefits_Were_Huge

You are pathetic, Sha. Using science until it shows you are wrong and then whining about it. What a hypocrite and liar.

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1. We’re still looking in the wrong end of the telescope, Jim. There is no such thing as a “unified people” that can wield focused power independent of the Matrix: therein lies the challenge. Real people power that cannot be sidetracked is individual self empowerment through detachment from any “other” source of organized (or even mob) collective power. We should have learned this from all the failed popular, socialist and communist revolutions. They all led us to where we are today. Why repeat the same bloody bullshit? And I repeat, way too much emphasis is given to the nefarious works of organized religion today. They’re in #3 spot. #1 predator is capitalism – finance. #2 is all governments and their institutions. #3 is organized religion. These are the three forces that undergird man’s civilization. If you try to discombobulate religions you will discover, to your horror, that the other two forces will immediately come to religion’s support. In fact you are seeing this particularly in the US, Saudi Arabia and Iran. These forces know they are a three-legged stool of power and if one leg is cut off, the entire farce collapses. The trick to fighting a revolution or a war is, know your enemy. Know how your enemy functions and know where it is getting its support from.

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1. All I am getting at without writing a book here, it is belief that is problematic. Children that are raised in democrat or republican homes are no different than those raised to a specific faith in a specific god. Field test the words instead of blindly believing the tripe of any system that is most familiar.
There is also a lot of talk here in WP about the economic systems, like you pointed out, fail. But through belief we carry on to our demise. Field test the words. There is a better way. And there have been unified people in history that did great things and lived belief free, beautiful lives. I’m not so soured that I don’t think it’s possible again, but not through beliefs. That has to go. I know, we’re screwed. Haha. So, I do what I do and in the end I served my own learning purpose with no regrets.

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2. Quote: ” I do what I do and in the end I served my own learning purpose with no regrets. ” My ‘sediments’ exactly, Jim. It comes down to me and no buck passing.

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2. I think we’ve crossed swords before, haven’t we? When someone makes a comeback using personal attacks, they’ve said everything I need to know about their faith. It’s what religious people do. I unwittingly attacked your faith in “Science” – the new god of the age. Well, OK, I’m leaving it at that and we can both observe where man’s new god “Science” leads his civilization. 🤦‍♀️

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1. Yep, we have when you spout your baseless nonsense. You lie and I’m more than happy to demonstrate that.

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2. Ah, yes. the elusive, enigmatic, mysteriously mystifying, labyrinthine of the spherical ‘conundrical trap’ and the conundrum of the Bohemian Rhapsody,
“Nothing really matters,
Anyone can see,
Nothing really matters,
Nothing really matters to me.”

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1. Why this car is automatic-
It’s systematic-
It’s hydromatic-
Why it’s greased lightnin’!

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1. This was his first visit to my blog I think. I’d never actually read much from him because it was so bad at the beginning it couldn’t end well.

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1. Oh I’m just getting started… haha. It’s easy unless the source has an agenda.

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1. I had quite the conversation the other day with someone who tried to tell me that god is the source of all things (regardless of whether you call that source god or not it’s the same thing) and that being atheist means believing there is no source. I had to give up after a very short time because you can’t untwist the mind of someone who’s still caught up in the dogma of god and religion.

Reading scientific based discussion makes sense and is a huge part of why I’m atheist!! I can’t set my brain aside to rationalize insanity.

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2. Careful Succulent Savage!

(in his best Gene Wilder impersonation) You’ll create a brilliant Dr. Frankensteen if you juice him up too much. Then there’s no stopping the Mad Man! 😄

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3. Are you really arguing with CS about the flat earth?

Like climate change deniers, just ignore their nonsense.

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1. He stopped by my “interpreting scripture” post and flashed his brilliance

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2. Sometimes it’s hard to ignore the 400 lb lion in the room.

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1. Now I’m sure he thinks he got you, and that why you don’t engage any more.

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1. He can’t imagine how the earth can move so fast, but if the earth is stationary, the stars must be moving billions of miles per hour. That makes more sense…through faith.
I look back and the things I believed and feel stupid, but this is beyond that by many, many parsecs.

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1. This woman is how I think CS is. (She’s crazy religious, but I think there’s some serious mental problems here, too)

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1. Wow. Poor lady. I’m sure someone thought they could cure her schizophrenia with the gospels and the book of revelation.

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2. Mental Illness is not restricted to religious people but again, not a priority for those who control the wealth of the world because they live in gated communities.

If they had to live next to it we would have help for these people before the end of the day.

Just a thought

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1. Seriously he can’t be taken seriously. You saw the thread. It’s because I’m using “our math” to do the calculations that I come up with the wrong answers. I don’t need any math to demonstrate, just a stick and a string (or some bridge pilings)

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1. That’s one way.

You can also take observations of the height of a tower from various distances like the guy in this video.

Static image:

Myself, I prefer to watch the hulls of ships appear/disappear on the horizon as they sail towards/away from me on a large body of water. 🙂

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1. Watching the ships come in, then watch em go away again…that never gets old. Taking you own photos or doing your own measurements is bullshit when you can just read it all in a conspiracy journal.
Btw, how to insert a photo in the comments is the real mystery. How do you do that?

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1. In this instance I just posted the direct link to the flickr photo. I’m actually surprised it showed the embedded photo.

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2. I know Zande posts pics all the time. They don’t have the embed label as yours did. Would be neat to freely do that with my cloud pics and others. Thanks sir. Always a pleasure.

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3. Not sure if this will work, but according to this blog, the following code should work (link in blue, tags in black):

<img src=”https://i.insider.com/57e1887b077dcc62238b6d36>

And here’s the actual image:

“A ‘pale blue dot’ — a small and solitary orb where all of our triumphs and tragedies play out.”

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4. That got stuck in moderation for some reason. Better late than never.

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5. And I don’t see an image, just a link. I got it to work this morning on a photo comment below, but can’t seem to get it to go again

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6. Yeah. A look at the source code on this thread shows that WordPress added a “no follow” tag to the embedded link. I guess the image only posts if the host site allows it to be linked. (Or perhaps it’s a new WordPress “feature”.)

Oh well. It was worth a shot.

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7. It posted as a link, not an actual pic in the comment thread.

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4. The earth is flat and I know it. Aussies would be walking on their heads if the earth were not flat.

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1. Well, according to colostrum, they would be falling off the earth if it was round.

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5. K says:

I saw that. There was a flat earther and a King James Bible only Protestant(probably some small Baptist sect).

What amazes me about these people by far is their idolatry. Or maybe bibliolatry, it is all the same to me. When it comes to nature(something not made by humans), versus some book made with human motives and human hands, they pick the book every time. The writers must have scrapped and changed parts of it as they wrote, some surely ended up in the trash bin while they were composing, and what remained of it became the “word of god”. Some people took what they knew was the product of their own thoughts and own hands, and said to others “this is the word of god”, obey it and obey me. Some of that scroll or vellum ended up used for inventories or notes, or was recycled. Scraps leftover might have been used for fuel. The writers thought of the words they would use, and others later edited and added to them again and again. The whole collection was put together by vote, sponsored by politicians. And yet even though the pen and scroll and manuscript and the ideas written on them were at every point made by men, these people look at the book and say “this is the word of my god, this is the only way of knowing my god” and think that it can save them if they believe in it. No one ever thought a carving, painting, or statue was literally a god but these people worship a book.

It does not matter to me if the earth is flat, round, or square. My daily life changes little either way. These flat earth people seem to think there is a massive conspiracy to make people think the earth is round. Why would anyone really care about that? I find the idea it could be kept from everyone to be absurd, as there are so many things that can be easily pointed out that indicate that the earth is round. It has been known for a long time. And if it is alleged that the reason that “they” don’t want us to know that this Earth is really flat is to dissuade us from the Bible, I make this reply:

How do you know that if the Earth really is flat, it isn’t the Babylonian’s cosmology that they are hiding from us? Taken at face value, that cosmological scheme has a flat earth, a solid firmament covering it, and waters above the firmament and below the underworld. Maybe the shadowy conspirators don’t want us to know about Abzu beneath it all, or Irkalla directly beneath us, or the dwelling of the gods above the waters. Maybe Christianity and Judaism are part of the conspiracy, to mislead us from the truth that Marduk created the world. It makes sense. Who has been in power for centuries, who has spent all this time suppressing information and making things up? Christians, Jews, and Muslims. It is strange to pretend to be powerless against some conspiracy when your party was in power for centuries.

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1. I think you have CHRISTIAN BOLDNESS confused with Colorstorm. Not hard to do unfortunately. It sort of matters to me that they believe the earth is flat. If we can’t even come to a consensus on something as easily demonstrated as that? We have a long way to go healing all the division. It is amazing they cry oppression every chance they get while being in power. Those fucking “false flags” to the nearing end of days. Thanks K. Always a pleasure.

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1. K says:

I know there were two of them. It is just that most flat earthers I have come across hold their view because they want things to match up with a literal, straightforward reading of the Bible. It is still bibliolatry in both cases. Maybe there are some non-Christian flat earthers, I can’t think of any examples. But I can’t think of any other reason to hold that view and think there is a conspiracy to make people think that the Earth is round. It has little bearing on anything that personally matters to most people. There is no reason for anyone to want to hide the Earth’s shape. Few if any have any emotional investment in that, unlike some have with afterlife ideas or “salvation”? Or whether the Sun goes around the Earth or the Earth around the Sun. No reason to have some emotional investment in that either, unless some dogmatic scheme is involved. We know which side has the dogmatic scheme to uphold.

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1. I did look at Boldnesses blogsite and her ties are baptist. Not sure why this is so important to them other than the Bible hints at this. It’s actually pretty ambiguous about it and solely because some ingnorant bloke years ago continued the ignorance. Round earth isn’t new, and since Eratosthenes did his calculations and later Galileo labeled a heretic for countering the church, what the hell is wrong with better understanding (rhetorical question)? Religion should know better than to make scientific claims by now.

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6. Hmm. I’m sure you have a ready answer: Where does the Bible say the Earth is flat? When it comes to demonstrably empirical knowledge, the book is in error in so many ways as to make the entire work a complete laughingstock. Why it persists is the real miracle.

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1. There are about a dozen metaphors about the earth but all are ambiguous as to what they mean. It really doesn’t say the earth is flat, but has “ends” and a “foundation” and “corners”, but all metaphors. It is a laughing matter, but since it’s all up to interpretation, the nutters will be nutty. You know for 700 years Christianity believed Moses had horns because of the vulgate Bible. And if it’s in the Bible, you know it’s true.

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1. I don’t remember reading in the bible that the earth is flat but it does make it quite clear that it is either a square or a rectangle, for example, and quote: “Re. 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth…” How do you find four corners on a globe?

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1. A quarter sphere would be an odd shape to imagine, so that would be the scriptural equivalent of a doctrine. Haha. Those bible passages are obviously metaphors, but only to the reasonable believer. Not sure if those two words actually go together.

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1. My comment only shows the link. The image comes up if one clicks on the link.

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1. Yes, I get that. I do that with my cloud as well. But some people are posting actual pics in the comment thread. I’ll email John. He does it frequently.

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2. You have to right-click and copy the image address and paste it in your reply. That will show a picture or video.

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4. On an iPhone they need to hold down the finger on the image and open it in a new tab

Then tap the huge address at the top two times and a menu pops up

Select the option that says “Select All”

Then select the option that says “Copy”

Then they can paste it in the reply post.

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5. maryplumbago says:

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2. The following link describes the cosmological view of the ancient world

https://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/gre13.htm

In Job 38, God challenges Job to tell him:

“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who fixed its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its foundations set, or who laid its cornerstone?” and “Have you entered the storehouses of snow or observed the storehouses of hail, which I hold in reserve for times of trouble, for the day of war and battle?”

. . . which suggests that God was cosmologically ignorant of his own creation.

And Matthew 4:8 and Luke 4:5 inform us that the devil took Jesus up onto a high mountain to show him all the kingdoms of the world in an instant. According to Wikipedia, the highest peak near Israel is Mount Hermon between Syria and Lebanon at 2,814 m (9,232 ft). And according to this handy horizon calculator, that elevation would allow you to see everything within 118 miles to the horizon on a clear day (assuming that Jesus was 6 feet tall), which is barely enough to cover the 91 miles to Jerusalem, let alone all the kingdoms of the world — and most definitely not the opposite side of the earth.

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7. It’s interesting this popped up now because I’ve just been having a discussion with some people over at an amateur radio site (QRZ.COM) about what’s sort of generically known as audiophoolery, the behavior of some people in the sound reproduction world and their bizarre beliefs and claims. There is a whole industry out there designed to scam people out of their money by making ridiculous claims for insanely overpriced, mysterious and apparently magical cables, connectors, cable clamps, line conditioners and other products that somehow improve the quality of the sound coming out of their stereo equipment. They couch the whole thing in a lot of sciency sounding babble, immediately launch into personal attacks on anyone who dares to ask them to actually prove what they’re claiming, and they’re followed by a horde of true believers who will defend to the death, it seems, these ridiculous claims. One ‘review’ of one of these products, the lowly power cord which, in the audiophoolery world, can cost you as much as several thousand dollars for what is essentially nothing but a fancy six foot long, 3 prong electrical cord that should cost about \$5, was so bizarre that I really thought it was a satire site at first.

These communities, if you want to call them that, all seem remarkably similar. All of them work on the same basic principals – ignorance, outrageous claims, refusal to accept evidence, immediately attacking anyone who contradicts them, and a desire to belong to an exclusive group that proves you are somehow better than everyone else.

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1. Oh yes, I was a fool (and every other atheist) for being suckered by the round earth conspirators and their handy dandy fake math equations, simply tailored to a round earth hypothesis to seal the deal.
Remember Michael Shermers Ted talk where he had the marijuana dowsing rods that school districts were paying \$900 a piece? Your audiophoolery made me think of that. It’s very alluring in amateur radio I bet to be promised a good signal and extra power, only then to hope it into an actual improvement so you don’t feel like a sucker. Sounds Christian in a way, doesn’t it.
Speaking of that, where’s my abs stimulator? Hahaha.

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2. I remember seeing the ads for those expensive power cords in the audio mags. It was hilarious. Apparently, the thousands of miles of weathered transmission lines have no effect on your sound system, but those last five feet from the outlet to your amp . . . those make all the difference.

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1. You’re exactly right, Ron. The whole thing is just so silly. If they’d stop to think for a minute they’d realize that.

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3. I agree but….. on the pc audio side, I did get a sound card to reduce CPU time for cleaner faster audio response and more frame rates in gaming. Many believe this to be tomfoolery at this point but it’s the only old school trick I still use.

Just saying (it’s a nerd thing)

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8. I was born on the prairies. The horizon as seen from flat ground was 24 miles away. Maybe there was no flat piece of ground in biblical times and places, but in western Canada for sure the world is round. The horizon is a perfect circle around the observer. I would expect in the middle of a big enough sea, or the ocean, a similar observation would be made. My question is this: Is there anywhere in the bible that states the world is flat. It’s over 60 years since I read it cover to cover, and I did not notice those words, but my memory could be faulty.

That said, I agree with some commenters that geography is meaningless, just like borders, and different species. Life is life is life is life. All lives matter, not just human. Being respectful to all living beings, and being responsible for all living beings is what life is all about. On this matter alone the human race fails, miserably. Our species is probably, despite its possibility to be the best of all neighbours, is the very worst.
Whatever one wants to believe, or not believe, we were given the tools to be living gods, yet we choose to use them to destroy.

Botswana is distributing licences to shoot elephants. Just a few years ago, elephants in Botswana were an endangered species. They obviously developed a great system to save their elephants, so much so they want to cull the herds, and are selling elephant lives to hunters, probably to Trump’s offspring and their friends. Is this respecting life?
Why are we not shooting people in overpopulated places on Earth, say, New York City, or Hong Kong. Culling what we call animal species, or even plant species, is not acceptable.
All living beings deserve respect. Humans have none!

What this has to do with your post, Jim, I’m not sure. But these are the thoughts that crossed my mind while reading both your post and all the comments.

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1. I think you’re actually on point. And the purpose of religion is to distract humanity from owning its true potential. Faith is the barrier placed before humanity (think of a guru challenge to his student) and until we can surpass belief mode and transcend it’s limitations, we are not responsible or smart enough to wield our own power which is astounding as a unified people. To be unified in belief, has proven disastrous time and again. Overcoming it will be key to our continuation

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1. Let’s pray to Greta Thunberg that she may overcome!

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1. I’m not sure how to take that. Pretty sure she has handlers. Things are never what we’re shown. If this is different somehow only time will tell. But there is so much going on in the world, for every one person that gets out of the mess, still a hundred more are getting in, oblivious of their actions. And as a side note, all these efforts to recycle and these billions of pounds of plastic being shipped over seas to be dumped or never processed. On and on.

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1. I was actually being serious, Jim. Greta is about the closest thing we have to a “saviour of the world” right now. She’s no god, but I’m willing to deify her if she can help the world come to its senses.

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1. She’s not the messiah. She’s a very naughty girl.

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2. What’s a messiah? And what makes Greta naughty? Greta is a voice in the wilderness. Gee, who else was described that was while he was alive?

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3. Messiah is another word for saviour. It was a play on a scene from Monty Python’s “Life of Brian”.

Nonetheless, Greta is less a voice in the wilderness than a paid shill for the climate alarmists. Hence the reason for her new nickname; Scoldilocks.

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2. I think Greta Thunberg could make a difference. When she talks I listen, shes on my shortlist of people I respect.
When I think of climate change I think Greta Thunberg and if she says there isn’t enough being done I read in that direction to find out more because I trust her opinion. So for me, I don’t attach anything else to her, I separate the message from the messenger. I remove bias.

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2. K says:

Even if climate change could be stopped, why would you want to stop it?

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1. Rawgod, you must complete your training. The urgency you express, with all due respect sir, falls a little bit short of the big picture. Most of your views align to it, and allude to it. But this experience is not what we’ve been conditioned to believe and suffering is merely a part of the act.

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1. Ah, but we were not born to suffer. Do you see the Pope and his Cardinals suffering? Are the Falwells and the Grahams suffering? Yet they tell us we must suffer. How about the Saud family? The Khomenis? Netanyahu and his cronies? Donald J. Trump, et al. Bullshit!
Only the poor are suffering. And that is how “they” want it to stay.

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1. Another smashing response, rawgod. You are aware of much more than you let on…

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1. I’ve never tried to let anything on. It’s all on how other people hear it. Thank you.

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2. Agreed!! The rich don’t want more neighbors they want more servants. We should end suffering but it will mean ending the rich and powerful.

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2. Hopefully, not all life will die with the coming of climate change. But watching the Australian fires certainly is destroying a huge chunk of life. Reporters say millions of animals are dead, but that does not include the birds, the insects, and whatever species of life we don’t know about yet. Lives could probably count in the billions and trillions.
I am not thinking just of saving humans by fighting climate change. Humans are the cause, we can screw ourselves, I don’t care. But let’s do our best to save ocean life, and land life, and those living in the air! Look at the damage we have already done, and weep…

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1. Where was my head? I never even mentioned the plant and arboreal life burned down by the fires, or the droughts throughout the world. Forget trillions, count in the quintillions. So much of our earth is made of living beings. This is an expense we, as living beings ourselves, cannot allow.

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1. If taking care of the environment made money, climate change would be solved. We somehow have to make it expensive to damage the world and profitable to fix it.

Not sure how to do that lol but it would work.

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3. You Asked — “My question is this: Is there anywhere in the bible that states the world is flat.”

My Response — The bible is not a geology book but here:

Isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers…..

Flat earthers believe the planet sits on something:
Job 26:7 He spreads out the northern skies over empty space;
he suspends the earth over nothing.

Ecclesiastes 1:6 The wind blows to the south and goes around to the north; around and around goes the wind, and on its circuits the wind returns.

Circular Earth sitting in space with winds going around it. Nuff said

Can we please just put all religious and nonreligious armchair flat earth scientist in one basket marked “Ignore” and move on.

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1. There are plenty of other scriptures to the contrary that say the world has foundations, corners, and ends of the earth. These are the nutters favorite versus. You should read colorstorms blog. There are many like him. But hey, contradiction is the way of scripture and belief.

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1. There are many sites with flat earth science but for some reason we don’t blame science as a whole. Ergo I’m not going to blame all of theism for a small percentage of what you call nutters. Let’s all stick with the majority on both sides that believe the earth is round and ignore or educate the minority on both sides that disagree.

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1. I don’t expect you to waste your time on his thread, but it is entertaining. It’s also scary because I think there are some mental issues. But he’s been around WP a long time. His ability at special pleading g is incredible.

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2. As for foundations and corners I’ve read that and did not take it to mean flat. It’s obvious the earth has 7 points of reference like all spheres and 4 between the opposite poles. I draw them whenever I get bored in a meeting to make a sphere. I was thinking of programming it in python. It’s the same pattern we use to describe the first 3 dimensions of space. The fourth being within and without of the sphere (time)

I’m guessing it depends on a person’s education how they would view that scripture. The same as when talking to a person about Newtonian gravity and how they interpret it to be associated with pressure from the atmosphere. It’s obvious to me that it’s not pressure because I understand relativity but that’s only because I studied it extensively as I also do the Bible.

People who study more understand more.

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1. Well, Lander, to those searching to bring relevance to the conversion through scripture many will reach far and wide to do so to confirm belief.
I had a conversation with a Muslim a while back, and in the Quran it mentions some earthly features, one of them being the mountains. “Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? (Quran, 78:6-7)
This is considered proof Muhammad knew geology based on revelation from Allah that he couldn’t have known by his modern observation. This is somehow proof the Quran is revealed scripture from the one true god.

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1. You Stated — “(Quran, 78:6-7) Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs?”

My Response — The Quran is correct, they did make the earth a bed to sleep on and they did use mountains as pegs (marking a position) to travel by.

If a person reading it doesn’t know that the definition of “Peg” is “marking a position” then they will not know what they are reading. If they don’t know people slept on the ground in those days as they traveled then they don’t will not understand what they are reading.

If a person has a golf ball sized education then they will have a golf ball sized understanding of anything they read.

I’ve not read that scripture from the quran but I understand it’s meaning.

Education is the key to understanding

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2. Not to be dismissive or contrary of that because I agree, but faith is elevated above education in my neighborhood, and aligning what we see with scripture is more important than learning any secular teaching.

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3. I’ve heard Christians say that faith is above education but they get extremely mad at me when I counter that they don’t believe that.

As proof I remind them that they don’t take their kids out of high school and send them to seminary (or similar) and when the age is right they joyfully send them off to college rather than to the local church 😉

It would seem it’s easy to say faith is more important but I’ve never seen it practiced.

Outside of that it wouldn’t matter because they are not in competition with each other. My dad was atheist and he required daily home training after school in math, economics, philosophy and chess. My mom was christian and required math, music, martial arts and computers. My grandmother required bible training.

None of those competed with the other. My free time did but nothing else.

If people want to read the bible it doesn’t equal don’t read math. There is no competition. Theist text is not science based but the do, from time to time, state an observation of the environment.

If a golf ball sized education reads a theistic text based observation it may come to a golf ball sized understanding and run with it.

Golf balls are lightweight, you can run far with them. 😉

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4. My neighbor is one that takes his religion pretty seriously. There is no secular books of any kind, or videos, that are not church or bible related. They are SDA. Seems that in many cases the parents are choosing their kids ignorance

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5. I’ve had a few like that but for some reason they still got mad at me when I told them to sell the house because interest is an abomination and have the wife stop wearing pants (again abomination) and stop eating all those foods that they should be taking seriously are not allowed in the bible.

Like the song says, Why are religious people always great until they have to be great :O

I also have friends that claim to be serious believers in climate change but they get so mad at me when I tell them to commute to work, wash dishes by hand and open the window on cool days.

In fact now that I think of it everyone is serious until they have to be it’s just a human thing.

Your neighbor could also be a little off, you never know.

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6. lol he ignores his own message. Again education oO

Time within infinity is a constant. He is literally past 0 at this moment. It should read 101 to infinity but the more obvious strangeness is the disconnect from the bible since it emphasis’s the first 0 to 100 being the catalyst for the infinity portion.

This is not one of those profound memes lol

We as a society are just skimming books at this point, this lacks both science and religious text understanding in the worst way.

Jim I must request that you keep a safe distance from your neighbor just in case. Nothing good will come from the inevitable misunderstanding you will have with him in the future.

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7. He has a huge following where he is, more or less the sage of the group. This is a very thought provoking meme in his circles and the comments usually go on for days. Do you see why I’m just slightly irritated and concerned we’re going nowhere as a specie? Be thankful you live where you do, although it has other issues than this.

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8. You have a cult living and growing next door that wants to be dead as soon as possible to make it all better, meanwhile my church is fighting for LGBTQ rights. Oo

I would love to see his blog, share it if he has one but I bet money you can’t reply on it 😉

C ya later

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9. It’s Facebook, not a blog. I rarely comment unless it’s benign. Today I couldn’t help it.

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10. This was my reply—”Regardless of our beliefs I would venture out and say this life, right now is by far the most interesting thing in the universe. This little, short blip of time bookended by two voids, yet here we are for what, but by choice? Whether to escape the doldrums of infinite living, or to test our endurance or integrity, it matters not. This is our happening right now.

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11. Very poetic Jim 😀

I would have added wine and pizza somewhere in there but well said none the less!

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2. How about an airplane and drive them around the equator? If they fall off the earth, no loss.

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1. Haha. It certainly wound disrupt the chorus. Everybody has a role to play.

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2. I thought about that but you know for a fact that if anyone put a plan in place to fly up flat earthers people would fake it to get a free ride.

I’ve tried for hours with theist and nontheist to debunk flat earth but there is always a wall of resistance based on the Antarctica and airplane routes to other countries. I can debunk the rest with a good amount of success.

Somehow the plane routes don’t make sense to flat earthers but to be fair it’s because they don’t have a REAL globe of the earth. Again! They are missing a good education on what the real world looks like because they are using the wrong map of it. I know better because I didn’t rely on school to provide my understanding of the globe and how it really looks. See below if you are not aware, I did a post on it.

https://realitydecoded.blog/2019/04/29/your-world-map-is-a-lie/

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9. HA! But it had to come from a pic I saved on my computer so that may be the first step. To get a pic from somewhere else and bring it directly over to a comment doesn’t seem to work.

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1. I got one to work, but now it won’t. Quirky

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10. You Stated — “This is christian-think…”

My Response — Just curious, are you saying that the flat earth belief is a Christian belief?

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1. Do you know any non believers that espouse this flat earth explanation? The run-ins I have here and elsewhere it seems a Christian phenomenon through poorly interpreted metaphors in the Bible. Ron lists some above, but I can repost a link to his comment if you need. Google is full of them. I’ve not seen a secular flat earther, but I suppose they exist as a tertiary blast often affects in innocent bystanders. Even if they do, there is still a decent chunk of believers that believe it. Flat earth is sourced by Christians.

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1. You Asked — “Do you know any non believers that espouse this flat earth explanation?”

My Response — I’ll do you one better to show you the nonsensical nature of these atheist / theist blame games going on while the world burns.

If you are a christian you think flat Earthers exist because they took God out of school Oo

So “some” atheist think Christians are the source of flat earthers and “some” christians think atheist are helping the devil make stupid people.

Reality Check: Atheist and Theist are being played like a piano. This would all change if everyone focused on education being more valuable than money but I’ve noticed that both atheist and theist also have that in common…. a love for money.

Just a thought

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2. You Stated — “Christian phenomenon through poorly interpreted metaphors in the Bible”

My Response — Any church in my city (that I know of) would laugh anyone of stage believing the earth is flat.

You also know I’m a christian and do bible deep dives for articles I post and have not seen a flat earth reference.

They interpret the bible and science only in a way that benefits their position. The moment you show them a bible verse, picture from NASA, scientific study done or any proof they go into narcissist mode and start the attack.

I spent an entire wasted hour once with a guy at work showing him where you can pay for a flight in a Russian jet fighter that will take you high enough to see the curvature (pictures included) and all he could say was, “Russia is in on the cover up” Oo

He also stated that he was starting to wonder about me LOL. If you want to believe it’s Christians be my guest but I think you’re being played by narcissist.

I put flat earthers in the same category I put our mutual friend and those christians who yell about using capital G lol

They want an opportunity to argue, cause strife, talk down to others just to obtain a form of sick pleasure. (narcissist)

Edge of Space Jet Flight in Russia – Flights from EUR 17500: Prove almost daily that the earth is round.

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3. I get to see the nonsensical atheist / theist blame game from both sides as I review and debate the insanity spread around the world but take a look at the other side Jim and see how they are painting the flat earth phenomenon as an atheist product.

Both sides with bad ideas and no willingness to identify the actual issue (Money VS Education) . We are all being played.

Side Note: Please don’t ask if I believe the rest of that article, it would just be insulting. Or any of the other articles associating atheism with flat earthers.

I’m just trying to show you that your perception of this problem has bias. Join me outside the box of things 😉

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1. The SBC are still trying to live in an either/or black/white universe. They cannot see grey for their own noses.

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11. The curvature of the earth is easily proven with math but can also be proven with a laser from anywhere on the planet.

I think the science of flat earthers (observations and math of flat earthers), is simply incorrect. I’ve listened to about 100 or so of them and they simply seem to lack education coupled with a heavy dose of distrust of governments.

As for theism, I don’t see the connection, I’ve listened to atheist flat earthers as well as theistic flat earthers, the one thing they both share in common is a lack of education. They both ignore the majority to cling to the small (but growing) community of uneducated armchair scientists.

Most people period, atheist and theist, believe the earth is round. So the question isn’t religion it’s education. When I talk to flat earthers they have no idea how gravity or light works. We are creating a world where entertainment is far more important than education but our expectation is still set on high.

This is a failure of the education system and society. Until we acknowledge that, it will continue to become more of a problem. Try less money for the DOD and more money for education. Less xbox and more math. Less tv and more science.

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1. We should also be teaching people not to treat every part of the planet as a garbage can. No matter what earth theist and atheist think we have, they might wake up one day and all that’s left is paper or plastic.

Just a thought

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1. “Someday the earth will weep, she will beg for her life, she will cry with tears of blood. You will make a choice, if you will help her or let her die, and when she dies, you too will die.” Hollow Bear Horn, Brule Lakota.

Time to make the choice humans.

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1. If the earth were sentient, it’s most likely wondering why there’s stuff growing on it while all the other planets are nice and clean with just rocks and gas.

If anything it’s driving consumerism to kill off surface growth before life infects the other planets like mars.

Just saying

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1. What is your definition of a sentient being though? We humans are funny in how we classify things. We think just because something is not like us? It cannot have any sentience to it. But I beg to differ. Wildlife has proven that they are actually more human than we superior humans are. As an example? Go to a farm and watch them take a calf away from it’s mother. Listen to the reaction of both the calf and the mother. I grew up on a farm so I saw this many times.

I’ve watched videos of wild animal happenings that humans would never think of.I just watched one video of where a grizzly bear saved the life of a crow that was drowning in their water tank in their cage at a zoo. Literally plucked this crow out of the water with its teeth, set it down and then the crow dried off and flew away. I’ve seen videos of a certain place in the US where a wild pack of wolves will come up to people sitting in their space and then? Treat them with love, not attacking the humans sitting there. You watch the animal kingdom long enough? You will see just how much these sentient beings as we call them? Are more human than a whole lot of us humans are.

You can even see this in nature in a lot of other ways. As a Nature photographer? I experienced some wild things with what would be called sentient beings like plants. We once did an experiment with a high speed film camera. We videoed a person reaching to pick flowers. It was truly amazing that the flower appeared to actually move away from the persons hand picking them.

Humans again, think we are the top dogs here, and we have been proven actually? Time and time again? We are not. We think we have all the answers, but we do not. We judge other life forms as lesser than we are, when these same life forms? Could wipe out the human race in a heartbeat. So who is really stronger here? Who is really superior here? We humans think we are the best, but an amoeba can take us out if it wanted to. Heck, look back at the Dark Ages and the Black Death period. All those people believing in god, and it was a flea, on the backs of rats, that proved they were much more powerful than any god or any Christian or religious believer. And those fleas? Wiped out almost 75% of humanity. So much for lame sentient beings huh?

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1. Most powerful beings is a bit outdated at this point. I don’t think the human race, as a whole, cares who is most powerful. We moved onto most popular awhile back.

As for sentient beings and what kind is the earth….. it’s the kind that can careless. If the earth wanted mankind gone, we would be gone. It has far far more power to erase us in a few earthquakes and volcanoes then we do with plastics. If anything it would most likely be bored without us.

Maybe humans should stay in their lane and stop trying to figure out what planets are thinking about.

Just a thought

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2. Hey, Lander,
Who is in charge of big chunks of education around the world? Governments, and religions.

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1. You Asked — “Who is in charge of big chunks of education around the world? Governments, and religions.”

My Response — I disagree. I believe parents are responsible for the education of their children. The rest is a scapegoat blame game.

My parents sent me to school but then took time to teach me at home after school was over. They only blamed themselves for what I did or didn’t know, but that ended in my teens when they made it clear to blame myself if I didn’t take the time grow further on my own.

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1. My parents never went to school. They taught themselves to read, write, and do arithmetic. By Grade 3 they could not help me anymore. We each have our own experiences. There is not only one reason for how we learn, or how much we learn. The problem lies in what people teach, not who is doing the teaching. Religions have lied to us for generations, and those generations promulgated those lies. They don’t work anymore for a large numbr of people, and that number is growing. Religion is dying, even in the Muslim world.

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1. You asked who is responsible and the answer is still the parents. This doesn’t mean they have to do the teaching it means they have to ensure the child is taught. You can’t rely on any one source of education or blame a government or religion if your child isn’t getting what they need. You have to make it happen or your child will be lacking.

As for religion being done that’s nonsensical, the majority or people on earth are religious or spiritual. We can’t make religion go away with positive thinking lol.

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2. Yes, in fact? The problem with our educational system is the religious and the government. I can give a great example of this with our own school district. And this is the same for all kinds of school districts taken over by the Religious Wrong, with the acquiences of our govenment.

First? I live in what was a highly Roman Catholic town. We had seven RCC churches, (for a population at it’s highest peak of 12,000 people, but now it is like 4,000). Now, in the 90’s it broke open that two priests had raped over 400 kids. So the lawsuits that were brought? Closed a whole lot of churches and Roman Catholic schools to pay for those lawsuits. Then? The Roman Catholics started taking over the local public school and changing things.

Once they did that? Our public school district went to last place in the state. You would FREAK if you talked to my adopted daughter. She knows nothing about WWI, WWII, Vietnam war, Korea conflict. Hell she knows nothing about the Kennedys, MLK, Malcolm X assassinations. She knows nothing about Kent State, etc. She knows nothing about the Civil Rights movement. What we were actually taught in history, science, etc classes? She has no clue and neither do many of our local students. Why?

Because the damn Christians got their way. They now teach the bible in our history classes, getting away with it by proclaiming they are not pushing the Christian religion upon our students, but teaching them the history from the buybull. They upturned the real sex education courses that were taught to abstinence only courses, and now? As typical in sections of the country where this is done? Our teen pregnancy rate and std transmission rates rose higher and higher.

We fight them against this but hey, then we are attacked as Anti-Christian, etc. And this is being done, and has been done throughout the US, especially in the Buybull Belt states. Go and research this. All these states from the Buybull Belt teaching all this shit like this and their students? Have the highest drop out rates, the highest teen pregnancy rates, the highest rates of std transmission, the lowest test scores, the lowest college enterance exam test scores, etc.

And I again, just watched another program, where atheists were fighting the introduction of creationism in the science teachings, and the city council rejected the separation of church and state laws and rules and all the evidence and granted the Christians their right to push their creationism bullshit in our science courses.

So what the hell do we do about all this? Seems there is absolutely nothing we can do.

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1. I’m not convinced that bad schools in the US are because of Christians. My school was poor and the textbooks were severely outdated so my mom pulled me out of public school and paid for me to goto a private school owned by some church. Worked out great for me.

I think overall that bad schools have bad management and bad policies. All this tribalism is just a distraction.

If it were up to me I would just shutdown ANY school not meeting a universal high level standard. Create an aggressive requirement for student metrics and then start shutting down anyone falling below those numbers, regardless of who owns them.

Just a thought

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1. I think you actually need to study this problem. There are many studies that back up what I say. Many Christians groups have invaded our public schools and the consequences of their actions bring real harm to our students. There are many studies that shows where all these Christians took over these public schools say for their abstinence only teaching sex education? Has again? Brought great harm to the kids. Same when they insist on teaching the bible as history in our public schools. Or force creationism to be taught next to evolution.

It is in fact? Happening more than you could think or even imagine. And this is a truth you will have to study yourself and learn on your own. But I would not be posting my comment without knowing what I was talking about and having studied this problem for years.

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2. I’m from Chicago, so my experience is this, the areas with money have the better schools. I’m sure your experience is what you are saying. That’s the thing about the human experience, it has many perspectives.

I’m just not convinced it’s one thing causing all our school problems.
You see religion I see money someone else most likely sees gender and so on.

We live in a world where, no matter who runs the school, the kids coming out are programmed to work in cubicles for multinational corporations. Putting the high cost religion free college education to it’s full potential.

Money is the root of the problem, I’m just not big into weeding

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3. I do agree one of the major problems with our school system is money. But it is the Christians putting in their bullshit in our curriculum that makes our schools such failures at teaching our kids what they really need to learn. Even if it means working in a multi-national corporation’s cubicle. Most kids I know now a days are being taught coding and a lot of schools want to use the STEM based programs and not the stupid ones a lot of them gotta use now.

I believe one of my ways of fixing this problem I said earlier? Take those billions we keep blowing on military planes that don’t work or a few thousand of those \$7,000 toilet seats, or \$700 coffee cups our military spends to put aside for their black list work and spend that shit on our educational system. We need billions invested in our schools and keep those damn crazy Christians out of the schools science, history and other classes. They want to teach that crap of creationism, abstinence only sex, buybull as history shit to their kids? Send them to a Christian school where their taxes they pay for the public schools is then sent to that school. Don’t force it on all other kids. That is bullshit. I would say the same though if Muslims or any other religious group tried to force their shit into our public schools too. But in the US? The main problem comes from the Christians….but the Church of Satan and the Satanists are giving them a funny run for their money and some justly deserved hell lmfao.

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4. I see it a little differently. Contract curriculum and teachers unions, while the good teachers are pigeonholed to teaching by the state test standards everybody learns exactly the same thing and little of it. Most of the teachers at my kids school are nearly flatlined and lack motivation. Their in it for a career and biding their time. I suppose that’s about the same as it was when I was a kid. Some of those teachers would beat us to the parking lot.

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5. There are good and bad teachers. There are a lot more good than there are bad though. Most are beaten down because of the shitty pay they get. I actually live right next door to the local Middle School. The crap these teachers go through for the low pay they get? But no matter what? When those kids show up? It still brings a smile to many of the teachers faces and they do a lot for our kids.

There are also a whole lot of teachers out there with innovations in teachings that should be listened to. The first thing we gotta do for the US? Is get rid of that twatwaffle Betsy Devos. She needs to be GONE and we need someone there who really knows what the hell they are doing and are experienced educators. Not the nitwit numbnuts we have in there now. But hey, Trump says he always gets the best…..yeah right.

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6. I guess we will have to agree to disagree since my state doesn’t have Christians in the school teaching creationism and they are still crap schools Oo.

In fact most states don’t and the schools are awful. I don’t care if they teach in them or not because I don’t think it’s going to solve the real problem with schools.

We have 50 states with terrible school records and only 14 of those have a minimal offering of religious anything.

That leaves 36 states without Christians to blame for all their problems. It also leaves the majority of schools in each of the 14 without Christians to blame for why they are so terrible.

I’m still not convinced after reviewing the data that Christians are the problem in US public schools.

I still think it’s money.

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7. Here are some interesting stories for you to read.

Creationism in our Public Schools

The Battle to Teach Evolution in Public Schools
https://futurism.com/battle-teach-evolution-public-schools-far-from-over

Publicly Funded Schools That Are Allowed to Teach Creationism. Thousands of schools in states across the country can use taxpayer money to cast doubt on basic science.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/01/creationism_in_public_schools_mapped_where_tax_money_supports_alternatives.html

Christian Abstinence Only education in our public schools

Abstinence education should be taught in public schools
https://sundial.csun.edu/37129/opinions/abstinence-education-should-be-taught-in-public-schools/

Many Georgia school districts tell students: No sex until marriage
https://www.macon.com/news/local/education/article215972505.html

Here is one Christian girl who stood up to the abstinence only sex education in Texas.
The Lubbock Independent School District high schools have an abstinence-only policy, which means they do not discuss condoms and contraception except in terms of failure rates. And they teach abstinence as the only acceptable behavior for teens that are not married.
https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2005/06/the-case-against-abstinence-only-sex-education.aspx

Abstinence-Only Sex Ed Is a Failure
Two new papers highlight the scientific and ethical shortcomings of the abstinence-only-until-marriage approach. Two scientific review papers find abstinence-only-until-marriage programs and policies in the United States are ineffective because they do not delay sexual initiation or reduce sexual risk behaviors. According to the researchers, these programs also violate adolescent human rights, withhold medically accurate information, stigmatize or exclude many youth, reinforce harmful gender stereotypes, and undermine public health programs. Both papers are published online in the Journal of Adolescent Health.
https://www.mailman.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/abstinence-only-until-marriage-programs-and-policies-are-failure

And yet? Christians are still demanding that abstinence only sex education be taught in our taxpayer funded public schools.

Next up? Christians forcing the history classes in our tax payer funded public schools is going like wildfire.

Here? We have the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools. Interesting read here on how these psycho Christians are forcing this into our public, tax payer funded schools huh?
To date, our Bible curriculum has been voted into 3,500 high schools in 41 states. Over 650,000 students have already taken this course nationwide, on the high school campus, during school hours, for credit.
https://www.bibleinschools.net/

Growing number of states pushing ‘Bible literacy’ classes in public schools
A growing number of states are considering bringing the Bible back to the classroom. At least six states — Florida, Indiana, Missouri, North Dakota, Virginia, and West Virginia — have introduced legislation this year pushing for public schools to offer Bible literacy classes. Supporters say learning the basics of the Bible is an important part of American history — and students should not be denied learning its tenets just because someone might be offended.
https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/growing-number-of-states-pushing-bible-literacy-classes-in-public-schools

Christianity and Public Education: Do they Go Together
In his article, “Integrating Faith and Public Schools Without Mixing Church and State”, Eric Buehrer says that teaching students about Christianity and its positive influence on American culture is not only possible, it’s legal, and a legitimate academic pursuit for public schools.
https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/education/catholic-contributions/christianity-and-public-education-do-they-go-together.html

Report: Over 350 Public Schools Teaching the Bible
More than 350 schools in 43 states have implemented courses on the Bible for the 2009-2010 academic year, a new report reveals. Leading the pack is Texas where more than 50 schools are teaching the course this fall, according to data from the Bible Literacy Project, which publishes The Bible and Its Influence, a student textbook designed for public school courses on the Bible.
https://www.christianpost.com/news/report-over-350-public-schools-teaching-the-bible.html

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8. So I read the first link and most definitely did not find it compelling. Only 14 of the 50 states in the US have creationism in school and within those states most have less than 5% actually doing it.

I did learn a few new things while focused on schools that I did find interesting.

All the states are seeing children exposed to gun violence. Over 190,000 students per year.

Sexual abuse over 300,000 per year

Then there’s drug use, missing children, suicide, and mass shootings.

I’m just not convinced that this is where we should be focusing or energy.

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9. Again Lander, if you want to discuss all the problems of our schools? Then lets do so. Yes, kids have to deal with a whole freaking lot these days in our schools. We got the Repugnants to thank for those wonderful gun drills now, and what sex education that will not keep kids from getting pregnant or getting stds, and how our teachers will soon be armed to the teeth as the solution for the gun violence and mass shootings.

The drugs, suicides and other behaviors? Is actually from the hopelessness these kids of these days feel. They feel no fucking adult really cares for them, they see all the hypocrisy of our government leaders, religious leaders, even their own heroes from movies, tv and music. They are watching the world die because fucking adults do not care really that they are leaving a disaster for them to clean up with the global climate change and all the other bullshit they gotta deal with.

It is not like when I was going to school, your biggest worry then was if you were going to miss the damn bus and have to walk a few miles to school, or they were having those shitty fish sticks and crappy fries for lunch. Never thought when I was in sixth grade if I were in it now? We would be having fucking gun mass shooting drills. Though I did catch the tail end of those wonderful nuclear bomb duck and cover drills. So that tells ya how long ago I started school.

I don’t know where the hell you got the statistics though of 300,000 cases of sexual abuse each year, I am very involved in exposing that shit and while it is high? It is definitely not 300,000 cases per year. And schools are doing a much better job of cracking down on that shit now. But the biggest problem of the sexual assaults occure when it is a female teacher upon a male student. Most do not want them prosecuted and the boys are treated as heroes really. But it is the exact opposite when it is a male teacher on a female student. So that shit has gotta change. There is a lot of sex assaults that happen during parties, and that is parental problems mostly to control. But no dude should learn that it is alright to get a girl drunk, and drop a drug in her drink and then rape her. And no dude should be rewarded for doing so but prosecuted to the fullest extent the law is and put into prison.

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10. You Stated — “It is not like when I was going to school, your biggest worry then was if you were going to miss the damn bus and have to walk a few miles to school, or they were having those shitty fish sticks and crappy fries for lunch.”

My Response — When I was in school the number one concern was getting stabbed or shot, so again, perspective.

You lived a different life so religion is a big concern for you.

Me, I’m more about survival in a world I see steeped in money and greed.

We will have to agree to disagree. Until then I remain unconvinced I should be distracted from the rich that I’ve been watching my entire life.

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11. The three biggest problems of our world. The Rich, the Religious and the Powerful. And all of them? MUST GO.

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12. This is missing a few

The sadistic, the warmongers and the narcissistic

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13. I just posted several links refuting what you said. But it is awaiting moderation so when Jim releases it? Then you will have many website articles to educate yourself on the extent of this problem of Christians taking over our tax payer funded schools with the following express purposes. To decimate the schools, to bring the grade average lower, and to cause all kinds of harm to the schools, so that eventually? Betsy Devos and her ChristoTalibans can truly take over our public school system. YOU may not believe this, but all you go to do is study Betsy Devos and her Christian freaks who push for the complete and total destruction of the separation of church and state and the installment of their ChristoTaliban religious beliefs upon all the rest of us. These Christians? Are no different than the Muslims by any stretch of the imagination. They want complete and total control and domination upon all others, just like the Muslims want.

Christians are pissed, they once ruled the world basically. We were basically under the control of the Christian church who made the orders, who told you how to live your life, what to believe, how to worship, even? Who to murder. Well? They no longer have that kind of power like they used to and they are pissed about it. And? They want that power back. And will do all they can to bring that to fruition. Just study the Christian Dominionists and you will see this for a fact.

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14. FYI, My settings only allow two links per page without going into the que. Sorry about that

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15. You Stated — “I just posted several links refuting what you said. “

My Response — I don’t mind reviewing the links but what are you refuting? I stated I wasn’t convinced and that I went to a private school? The rest of my response was about poor management, what is being refuted?

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16. I’m not convinced that bad schools in the US are because of Christians. My school was poor and the textbooks were severely outdated so my mom pulled me out of public school and paid for me to goto a private school owned by some church. Worked out great for me.

I think overall that bad schools have bad management and bad policies. All this tribalism is just a distraction.

This is what you stated lander. But if I were you? I would do some research on the differences between a Christian ran school and a public school ran without any interference by Christians. The differences in test scores alone prove that Christian schools do not measure up at all when compared to public schools that are well run.

Most of the problems with our schools is our own Congress and legislatures. How about we start taking care of this problem of public schools in the following ways.

1. Billions for education. Take away some of the billions we spend on weapons of war and put that to better use in our educational system.

2. Pay raises for teachers. How dare we force public school teachers to live with what we pay them? And then? They turn around and use their pay to pay for stuff for students? Why are we not paying our school teachers more?

3. Keep religious bullshit out of our public schools. Our public schools should be teaching real sciences, real history, real math, real sex education, not abstinence only sex ed, not biblical history, not creationism. If they want to fill their kids heads with these Bronze Age bullshit myths? Then send them to a freaking Christian school.

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17. Number 1 is right on the money (no pun intended) but no one makes the rich fight wars and everyone is guzzling gas like there is no tomorrow.

Number 2 Again money, no one cares about children or people taking care of them so why would they pay more? Think how much a museum gets for paintings of rocks and trees. Or a new military base. Or a country club. Things the rich control.

As for religion, my school didn’t teach any and it still doesn’t. But then again it’s still run down and poor so maybe religion in school is for communities with more cash. Not sure since I haven’t seen it and don’t know anyone in my circles talking about it.

Although when I lived in Texas it did come up from time to time but I wasn’t really into it. Maybe it’s a big thing in Texas. They seemed a little religious crazy when I was there. Religion seemed more important in Texas. And flags… lots of flags.

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18. This more all manifests in the infamous Buybull Belt. And TexASS is huge for the buybull, guns and gawd. More “Red States” than Blue states.

I did my basic training at Lackland in TexASS, where men are men, cows are nervous, and flags, lots and lots and lots of fucking flags. Hell they will wear flags on their skivvies if they could.

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19. And big trucks, don’t forget the big trucks.

I’ve never seen so many poor people vote for a Billionaire in all my life.

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20. And guns, lots and lots and lots of guns too.

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3. I agree with Lander on this. Most theists agree that the earth is round but people like Colorstorm who are not just flat earthers but try to use their religious belief to “prove” that the earth is flat just makes his flavor of christianity even more ridiculous.

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4. This is an insane argument deserving more of our derision than counter-argument. the Greeks knew the world was round as far back as 200 BCE simply by watching ships sail over the horizon. the further the ship sailed, the less they could see of it until they could only see the mast & flag, then the flag, then …….nothing. Of course, applying =even a minuscule amount of common sense – which, granted, is is short supply right around now – led them to the conclusion the Earth was round.

The arguments of the religious and their conspiracy-theory allies need to be ridiculed and summarily dismissed. They are simply not worthy of our time or energy and continuing to argue this nonsense with them only gives them power, adds life to an otherwise specious and childish position. You may as well argue against the existence of the Easter Bunny.

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12. Becky says:

How is this possible? I’ve never met anyone in my life, theist or non-theist who sincerely believes the earth is flat. Maybe she/he is teasing and trying to get a rise out of everyone???? I don’t know. Just don’t get it.

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1. There are a lot of flat earth conspiracy sites with endless arguments for flat earth. Check em out. They’re entertaining with ignorance. And they’re serious

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13. Satire Warning:

First? I know of no atheist who believes the earth is flat. Let me get that out of the way at the git go.

What is the solution to these flat earthers? We take one of the space shuttles out of mothballs. Load them up on it and blast them into outer space. If they still believe the earth is flat afterwards? We send the shuttle on a trajectory to the sun. Bet once they get past the moon? They will change their minds the earth is flat.

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1. I’m in process of settling the flat Earth theory . First though it’s time to face the fact that the Earth isn’t round. It’s got a flattish side. If you look at a flat tire you see the same problem. So I bought a super duper heavy duty compressor and I’m going to fix this. I’m going to blow it up. If I follow instructions the results should be a world resembling a donut or a spare tire. Round and flat at the same time which should make everyone happy…

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