Christianity—Self Evidenced

How Christianity follows a predictable path from the beginning.

“I see nothing here that would invalidate Michaels argument“.

Of course not! Christianity and Islam have effectively killed original thought by making copycats. And if you openly don’t believe it, prepare for the subtle witness or the all out testimony. The programming is fixed. Resistance is futile. Every knee will bow!

Commonsense tells me he (Hoffer) won’t have referred to most Christians” The beauty of Christianity is its Autobias and built in A.R.S. (Automatic Rebuttal Syndrome) while Christianity and Islam are the epitome of successful mass movement, beginning with an archetypal enemy, a devil (or the status quo)

1. Radical idea that challenges the controlling powers
2. Adopted by those in power.
3. Used as a tool to absorb countless cultures
3. Creating new zealots to stand behind the religion (which is now the state)
4. Goes out in force to do the works of evil in the name of good (the conversion of Europe and Latin America) It is all very predictable that the new movement will become the enemy they hated.

Here is the quote in question on whether Christianity is well played mass movement—”Hatred is the most accessible and comprehensive of all the unifying agents … Mass movements can rise and spread without belief in a god, but never without a belief in a devil.”—Eric Hoffer

Atheism will never be a mass movement. If anything it bolsters Christian defenses and gives them another bogey man to rally against. Hitler had the jews to unify several competing foes, while Christianity has Islam (and atheism) while Islam uses the West as its eternal threat which anchors the longevity of the movement.

Author: jim-

One minute info blogs breaking the faith trap.

39 thoughts on “Christianity—Self Evidenced”

    1. Thanks. The enduring enemy is really the devil. That is the glue. Islam and atheism can come and go, but the devil is the real key to its longevity. Hoffers work rarely mentions the religion specifically, but as general terminology to support successful mass movements. But really, if Christians understood the real message of the gospel, the world could be very different. They can even keep their devil but they wouldn’t need it.

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          1. Thanks for that. I’ve not read much atheistic material before but I’ve certainly never encountered an argument for atheism based on a statement of Jesus.

            My own understanding of the issue you raise about ‘a son of God’ lies in the doctrine of adoption. I’m not sure I follow your section on eternal life being something I can achieve in some other way – it doesn’t seem to fit with the rest of Jesus’ teaching.

            I do definitely object to the phrase about the stupor of faith – I prefer to think things through and I don’t think faith has to be completely blind.

            Returning to my first thought about your use of Jesus’ teaching – if he’s not God then who is He?

            I’ll try to read some Hoffer

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            1. Hoffer is a good insight to humanity. Who was Jesus? Probably nobody but one of many that went calmly to their death because they saw the game in full. If you understood the core of Hindu philosophy, Zen Buddhism, or another like experiencer (I figured this out before I was familiar with these. I am not Buddhist) you see the connections. All the talk of being “one” with the father and such, would most likely make me ask a different question.
              When one gets a peek behind the curtain, either deliberately or by accident, they usually laugh out loud. The trick, the mystery is there is no mystery and you realize that you are the entire, timeless show. All of it. How else could you possibly have it done on earth as it is in heaven, without knowing? He wanted to teach a method, not a faith. And faith, as you can see, is a tool of perpetual manipulation. It is a temporary waypoint to enlightenment, NOT the pinnacle of religious experience. Hope leads to faith, then to knowing. If it doesn’t lead to knowing you have to jump ship. The great teachers will prepare you and release you. Faith is a never ending conundrum, but in Christianity it is the destination (it is no wonder we’ve gone nowhere) I call it the monotheistic stall.
              Faith is like a guru challenge to a pupil. A barrier if you will, where the real deal is a method that requires no belief at all. The key is actually having real faith (the faith of an atheist?) that total trust in letting go. Now we have the book (idols) and a god to cling to, hanging on to the bitter end for generations going in reverse. It will never produce the desired result. This is the stupor of faith. No harm was intended there.
              Until humanity can overcome belief mode we will never be capable of wielding such potential as knowing that the game is a game.
              This might interest you since I’m enjoying our dialogue
              https://jimoeba.wordpress.com/2019/12/11/all-the-world-is-a-stage/

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            2. I’m just about to read that – but before I do, do you believe I am timeless, and therefore believe in eternity?

              In reference to your point that faith in Christianity is the destination, the Bible teaches Christians in Ephesians 2 vs 8 ‘it is by grace you have been saved, through faith’. That suggests to me that salvation is the destination, and grace and faith are the means to reach it.

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            3. Faith in grace is another obstacle to personal responsibility and a hang up. And to answer your question, I believe in eternity, I don’t believe I can ever, not be. That would violate the laws of energy. I think what you’ll find is this game has been going on a long, long time. There are no bosses. I AM, was another Jesus/Buddhist connection that is realized through not belief, but knowing.

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            4. You may have to really examine what the physical world actually consists of, to answer this question, “in what way do I exist once my body dies”? I will try to be brief with 2 points.
              You realize the stuff your current state exists in, is 99.9999% empty space? When physicists began to break down the elements to the Nth degree, they find there is nothing there. The terminology and explanations meet all the definitions of spirit. So essentially the particles (manifestations of spirit/energy, a condensed state?) that consist of you and me currently, are as undiscoverable as matter at all, and really fulfills all the requirements of spirit, only they are using different terminology.
              Second; Life is what happens in between death. This short span of “physical manifestation” of what we call life is a natural occurrence, but not our most normal state. We have been “dead”far longer than we have been “alive”. Death is our most normal state of being. But let me lead you carefully into this particular point of view. It is an aha moment for some, but the crux of what this is all about (who knows, it may even fit into your faith) We’re intentionally deceiving ourselves. What possibly could entertain an infinite being (such as yourself) who has all the knowledge and potential of the entire universe at his disposal, possibly do to relieve the boredom of infinite living? —Go into a situation where you don’t know the ending. You don’t know where you came from, or where you’re going—and when you break back through to the other side? Laughter and exhilaration—the game would get you every time. This life, bookended by two voids is the most interesting thing in the cosmos. Participants and watchers in a never ending drama. We’re really no different in this state than the other.
              Those skilled in the meditative arts have known this for quite some time. That you are the entire manifestation of a timeless drama where there, everything is past, present, and future simultaneously, and here, we explore ourself (we are all one) from different vantage point.
              It’s interesting that no belief is required, and there are no gods or monarchial bosses. It’s you. It’s a pretty neat trick.

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            5. I have to admit that I’m struggling to get my head around this. One of the things that I think many people find frustrating frustrating about Christianity is the use of vocabulary or ‘Christian-lingo’ which Christians recognise and understand but others may not totally grasp and makes them feel like outsiders. I feel a bit like that reading some of your posts. Terms like spirit, death, infinity and breaking through to the other side seem to have a meaning for you that I don’t fully grasp.

              However, there are definitely huge similarities with what I believe – the presence of a spirit world and even death as some sort of existence. I can’t help notice your certainty and think that what you are certain about requires some kind of faith or belief… but it all makes life seem very random and pointless

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            6. The key to seeing is unbelief. Through belief you will see the what bias you believe, through unbelief you see what’s actually there.
              The appeal to faith began the stupor of thought. Paul played on the chiefest weakness in human psychology. People will defend “belief” as a virtue to the death though they have no evidence for said beliefs. Just a hunch, then a commitment to someone else’s idea. Through repetition we hardwire the neurons and the ability to dismiss the obvious is now physical. That is why I don’t bash believers—it isn’t them, but the belief. That same belief, when shut off reverses 180° and people actually become human again. More loving, more caring to ALL people, regardless of their affiliations. But truly, faith plays the pivotal role in the stall of humanity. It makes us proud and arrogant. It gives virtue to waiting when we actually hold all the power to make the world right. It celebrates humanity as a weakness.
              Look at it this way. The Bible says the natural man is an enemy to god. But see, the Bible has motives and redefines them incorrectly. A sort of bait and switch. The natural man is actually the believing man. Everybody is compelled to a belief. Then we are to shun pride and have faith, but faith is the epitome of pride. Strong faith = stubborn pride (he’s a man of strong faith, that can’t even be moved by hard evidence?) Christianity gives points for doing what mankind can’t help but do and made it a virtue.
              My certainty came in a moment of clarity that I am still sorting through. It is a difficult experience to find words for, so we use terms we are familiar with, hence some of the crossover.
              But meaningless? Not at all. Simply the entire process is amazing!
              What is it about Christianity that gives meaning to your life? Jesus tried to show it to you, but he selected random followers who were not prepared to see beyond their cultural bias. Had he been speaking to the Kogi of Columbia or the Kofan, or even the plains Indians, they would have totally understood what he was trying to show.
              Crazy Horse went into the world where there is nothing but the spirits of all things. That is the real world that is behind this one, and everything we see here is something like a shadow from that one” —Black Elk

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            7. Faith does celebrate human weakness, but as such surely it shouldn’t lead to pride? My faith is placed in salvation through grace alone, in a gift from God which I don’t deserve and therefore Iv nothing to be personally proud of. I believe that, yes, Jesus did come to those who couldn’t understand because of their own bias – but that was necessary so that He would be put to death. His whole reason for living was to die. I find meaning in serving a God who was willing to do that for me.

              I’m not sure that an absence of a deity would make me more loving – if anything I think I’d be more selfish under those circumstances

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            8. Curious why god would send you here with no freewill then judge you based on whether you believe grace is available to go back to where you can’t help but go back to?
              What you have described is a depreciation that rivals techniques used on POWs in China and Vietnam.
              I wasn’t sure either if not believing in god was going to make me cruel or a license to “sin”, but really it was to the contrary. Personal responsibility, no third party recompense, and everyone suddenly became beautiful to me like never before. But we’re all different.
              Here is one point of view on faith and humility that is true for the church, although some escape the trap.
              ”The impression somehow prevails that the true believer, particularly the religious individual, is a humble person. The truth is the surrendering and humbling of the self breed pride and arrogance. The true believer is apt to see himself as one of the chosen, the salt of the earth, the light of the world, a prince disguised in meekness, who is destined to inherit the earth and the kingdom of heaven too. He who is not of his faith is evil; he who will not listen will perish.
              Eric Hoffer

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            9. What do you mean when you say ‘to go back to where you can’t help go back to?’

              That’s an interesting Hoffer quote. I don’t think that the belief of what he describes should automatically lead to pride. There are some proud Christians of course but I don’t think that a believer seeing himself as chosen leads to pride. You could have a proud president who has been chosen by the people, or a humble one who is focused on service. Pride is often part of a person’s nature and some are more likely to be proud in larger degrees than others regardless of faith.

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            10. Part of the problem with belief in faith, is everything you hear or analyze in a spiritual sense is filtered to see what parts match up with what you’ve decided to believe. There is very little investigation, just soughts for confirmation. Of course you don’t think it leads to pride because that type of introspection is impossible through belief. Conversations become bias-tending instead of exploration. I offered one way to see the world in the follow up comment, yet you ask for semantics on questions I already answered. Granted, you come across as a more intuitive sort than most that attempt apologetics, but as I offer a more genuine process of existence and compassion, you tend to want to defend what you’ve already decided, rather than explore a different point of view. This is the nuts and bolts of why believers can’t understand atheism (which you alluded to early on) and stick to what you think you know. This is the faith trap.
              If I were able to put into words, a bulletproof, contradictory free way of seeing the world, one that solves the problems of evil (and good), the believer would miss it because it misaligned with belief. It’s almost as though you completely missed the comment (which is possible with WP) so what do you think?

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            11. I did actually miss your other comment (oops). I guess much of this comes down to faith. I don’t think you or I can put into words a bulletproof and questionless view of the world and therefore both of us require a certain amount of faith. I think at one point you alluded to having faith in your set of beliefs earlier in our conversation. I agree that I am likely to interpret the world in a way which supports my beliefs, but I also think that at the outset my experience of the world contributed to my beliefs and faith. I see a world of logic and structure, and I agree that humanity seems to have a natural leaning towards a belief in some sort of god, and some sort of meaning in life. That’s not concrete evidence that a god exists, or that there is, in your words, ‘anything behind the curtain’ but it seems to suggest to me that there must be a reason why humanity is like this – why we seem almost pre-programmed to search in this way.

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            12. I think at one point you alluded to having faith in your set of beliefs earlier”. I don’t have any beliefs. The process for me is to challenge, seek, and understand differing points of view. Abrahamic religions have beliefs, commandments, and a view of the material world that puts them as strangers to nature. Since they believe we are created, not naturally occurring, synthetic pieces of clay and the world is an artificial construct, not naturally occurring, it puts faith at odds with reality. Other cultures understand this. The reality is we are actually a part of our environment, and the sooner everyone realizes that the longer the game can continue. The Hebrew way is to subdue, confront nature and control it. That isn’t natural, nor is it moral, but that religio/economic model rules the world right now and you better play or else.

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            13. ‘Since they believe we are created, not naturally occurring, synthetic pieces of clay and the world is an artificial construct, not naturally occurring, it puts faith at odds with reality. Other cultures understand this. The reality is we are actually a part of our environment, and the sooner everyone realizes that the longer the game can continue.’

              I don’t understand what you mean here. If God created the world and then created mankind out of the dust of the ground then we are part of our environment? And if God created the universe with the rules of nature then everything which follows is natural?

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            14. According to the theology you are created. Virtually a synthetic, NOT naturally occurring entity at all. The flesh created from a created, synthetic world.
              Maybe look at it from this viewpoint; are the populations of the earth living more, or less respectful to the environment than before Hebrew creation philosophy took hold of the west? I know here in the pacific NW, that people lived a thousand generations and left a beautiful landscape for the new world to be exploited by western mentality, which they did. I don’t believe this is an intentional mindset, but an outcome of “creation”, which will always die, versus a natural world that has existed time immemorial with its inhabitants living with nature, vs confronting it.

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            15. I don’t like being critical without offering a solution—a better way possibly, to see the world.
              Underneath your superficial self that pays attention to this and that, counts the rules and feels apart from nature —a struggling visitor on a strange planet, trying your best to get out of here in one piece, there is another self—(more really us, than I) and the more you become aware of that other self, the more you realize that you are inseparably connected with all that there is. Would that make you a better, or a worse person? Knowing you are not just the self wrapped in skin, but that you are connected to your immediate environment as a total function of your surroundings, I would think that would make you more responsible, more kind, and more aware of the needs of others.
              I understand what you are saying because I felt the same way, but the alternative isn’t that there’s nothing—to the contrary, it’s everything.

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  1. I actually agree with this progression. But, how can the implications of the incarnation be used as a strong counter to 3-5? At least cause strong cognitive dissonance..

    Sadly, people have a strong propensity to look for scapegoats.

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  2. As reluctant as I am to use the word truth, I must. We claim it, but not god. They claim it, and some god, and then add rules referred to as religion.
    For What It’s Worth, Hooray for Our Side. Understanding that all religion is crap seems to be a movement of individual minds. I like that integrity comment. So true!

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  3. An off topic comment here about religion/atheism. After reading your post, I saw a suggestion for another post, which I read. The point I got from the post was so simple that I’ve managed to miss it all this time. Birth rates effect the growth of religious factions, along with atheists and agnostics. How did I manage to NEVER think of this all these years? Makes perfect sense now why Christianity, in particular, is so anti birth control and anti abortion!!! I imagine there is some morality based in their reasoning, but I bet that the biggest part of it is fewer births within their flocks means reduced numbers of new Christians.

    I should note the post was written by an Islamic fellow who did try to gently convert me once I commented on my atheism. He was easily dissuaded which was a joy!!!

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    1. The birth thing has also become a common theme in the white racist circles. I’ve heard some claim that easy access to effective birth control, sex education in schools and abortion is all part of some kind of “liberal” conspiracy to permit non-whites to literally out-breed, if you’ll pardon such a crude expression, whites and turn them into a helpless minority.

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      1. LMAO The stuff they come up with is just… I was going to say insane, but the word I’m really wanting is plain old stupid. Again, faulty logic.

        Thank you for that tidbit of information. I didn’t know that until now. I stay away, far away, from those who think like that. Good to learn what’s out there.

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          1. That doesn’t surprise me. How did I not know this about birth rates?! I’m feeling more than a little behind in the logic department here. Perhaps I’ve been atheist so long I don’t pay much attention to the theological stuff anymore and the crap they spew.

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        1. Alas, I run into far too many of these people up here. Plus I follow places like Right Wing Watch which turns up a lot of this stuff seeping into even more mainstream conservative circles. They can turn just about anything into a conspiracy theory, Qanon, pizza gate, the list goes on and on. They all follow the exact same websites, blogs and forums, think people like Jones and Hannity are the right hand of god, and literally think Trump is the “chosen one”. The gun has become a sacrament that is literally more important and more tied to their religion than communion is. The mainstream media is controlled by a Jewish cabal. Their attitude towards women is as horrifying as is their attitude towards minorities. In some cases worse, if that’s possible. The role of woman is to breed more white babies and pass her man ammunition to defend against the evil Jewish controlled government when the end times come.

          I dislike comparisons with nazis because that’s become a cliche, really, but, well, the deification of the leader who can do no wrong, the denial of reality, the obsession with the “purity of the race”, the violence against those with opposing views… I studied history in college, specifically European history and the rise of the nazi party following WWI up through the end of WWII, and what I’m seeing now is so much like what brought about the rize of the nazi party in the mid 1930s that it scares the hell out of me some days.

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          1. They can turn just about anything into a conspiracy theory

            Boy howdy! Is that ever true! I just recently read that the coronovirus is related to the introduction of 5G technology … 😖

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          2. I had a friend that was in Auschwitz as a little girl. She was around 5 years old. When she spoke of Trump being like Hitler, I listened. Overall, it’s not a comparison I like either. People don’t want to consider anyone could be as bad as he was… certainly not one of “ours”.

            I’m extremely intolerant of such views and cannot be around those who spout such crap. I get angry and it’s not pretty, mostly for me.

            Have a nice day and thanks again for showing me a bit more of the other side in a way which I can be kind(er) about it.

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    2. Most religions do something to encourage at least a stable birthrate and some kind of family structure. Even the ones that are anti-world or logically point to some kind of anti-natalism(like Christianity itself does) end up doing this. The future belongs to those who show up, and discouraging having children is ultimately a death sentence for any group of people. Take Confucian values, for example, or the mores of Judaism. Both of those religions condemn celibacy, social isolation, asceticism, and remaining childless. Islam also encourages people to have a lot of children. I recall another passage on 19th century Japan by some European, about how strongly the Japanese considered the duty to continue the family line, so that the ancestors will receive offerings in the future(this was or is by far the most common reason across cultures). I also remember reading several Hindu texts that strongly condemn those who remain unmarried, in very stark terms. In Ancient Greece and Rome, they had legal penalties or extra taxes for those that remained unmarried. There is also a reason why infertility has been considered a valid reason for divorce(or some other solution) across cultures.

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    1. I don’t think that they are dumb, but I do see the greatest amount of bias in the most faithful. An honest appraisal of their beliefs is nearly impossible, and the fear of losing faith masks an honest appraisal.
      I did notice however, that even they do not respond to John Branyon. So they’re not all that dumb

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