The liturgy of all Christian sects is meaningless. We’ve recently seen the ridiculous fallout from a misplaced baptismal prayer of a ridiculous procedure. Why do babies need baptism anyway? Do they need a remission of sins for simply being born an organism?
Blood sacrifice has done nothing to cure the worlds woes. Accepting the atonement and believing heals nothing. The blood of Jesus does not cure pedophilia nor cure alcoholism or anything else. My buddy Larry says Jesus cured him, but he’s still in recovery and always will be. This is the promise of Christianity —never arriving at anything.
Can the power of Jesus do anything but cause a well timed distraction from the trials of everyday life? If you stop believing, what will become of us? Buckle up! Unbelief is a whole new and amazing world. The trial of your faith is actually faith itself. Pretty neat trick.
The atonement of Jesus has proven an utter failure. A parlor trick. A mind game that has done nothing but stall the achievements of humanity, generation after generation, waiting for what will never come.
TheCommonAtheist 
But haven’t you heard?
Despite thousands of people being unable to sign up for Donald Trump’s new social media app, ‘Truth Social’, a Catholic priest was able to open an account on his very first try!.
A miracle!
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures. – James 1:18
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(CHRIST! God has twice wiped out my comment in the last two minutes. Cannot He look the other way for just a bit!)
I am trying to tell you your verb tense in the title is slightly wrong. Either He agrees with you, or He doesn’t think I am going far enough. Anyway, for those “in the know,” we know xianity fails its adherents, but we don’t think the xame ax those adherents. 2.38 billion numans (2021 figures) think it is doing just fine. Who are we paltry few to go against the masses? I think the correct vrrb tense is “failIng.” Xianity’s number are falling, for now they are still 470 million ahead of its nearest rival.
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Well I got that far before it mysteriously published itself. I guess God did not want me to finish my thought, bad publicity and all that. But the numbers are lower than the previous year, while the numbers of people of the Islamic faith are slowly rising. So, for now, xianity is only “failing.” They do not want to look at anything but numbers. Anything else is of no concern at this time.
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Christianity is very successful as a business. If they were selling stocks, it would be the best investment to make. Almost 2000 year history of unfulfilled promises but people still join
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That’s because they invented the killer pitch.
If it’s not working for you it’s because you lack faith. So the less it works the more you have to believe in it.
And if you’re surrounded by tenacious believers and it’s still not working you’d better make damn sure you’re demonstrative in your faith, otherwise anything that goes wrong is your fault, Unbeliever.
It’s such a successful system it’s been adopted by faiths as diverse as the New Age, Marxism and political economics.
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If your prayer isn’t answered, you are the problem.
If your faith is not strong, you are the problem.
If your life is shitty, god didn’t say you were to be happy. Temptations are to test you and if you do well, you might go to heaven. Though even then, you must be among the elect
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Ah, I’m glad you understand.
Now I’d like to offer you the opportunity to buy into a multi-level marketing program that’s guaranteed to make you rich. So long as you put in the effort. And you believe.
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I have a bridge I am selling.
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That’s not such a good idea. Invest all you want, they don’t pay dividends. Religion may well be the eternal scam. GROG
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I think Christianity took a wrong turn early on. We became organized. Jesus warned us to follow him. “If I am lifted up I will draw all men.’
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Hitching their cart to Imperial Rome couldn’t have helped. Rendering a bit too much to Caesar methinks.
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Christianity is with us today because it was saved from oblivion when it became the state religion of the Roman Empire. And, along came Islam. Cheers. GROG
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God has no religion! Roman Catholicism is NOT Christianity; Eastern (Russian) Orthodoxy is NOT Christianity; Anglicanism is NOT Christianity; Protestantism is NOT Christianity.
The Counterfeit Cainite-Judeo-Christian Religion:
https://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/2017/05/26/the-cainite-judeo-christian-religion/
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He’s an atheist?
He doesn’t believe in Himself?
I think there’s self-help books He can get for that.
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I do t think god would know it is god. Nothing to compare itself to
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Jim, You do not understand the nature of God and little of anything else for that matter. Do not project your stupidity, ignorance and depravity upon God who is holy, loving and most merciful.
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Yes. I see his mercy, particularly in the barefoot children working the mercury pools in Chinese slave labor. God is great.
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Jim, Chinese slave labor is the evil that men do. It has nothing to do with God’s mercy. It fact it is the opposite.
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Like what? Show some evidence of that please.
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In the Brahmajala Sutta the Buddha posits Brahma was the first being to find himself in the Brahma realm. As there was no evidence of anything existing until he became aware of it, he concluded he was bringing all into existence as the Supreme Creator. As other beings appeared, he perceived – thereby created – them too and told them he was their Creator. The other beings had no reason to disbelieve him. Thus the Creator God is born.
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God doesn’t believe, He KNOWS! Oh and The Master Potter KNOWS exactly what to do with His clay.
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Potter about?
I mean, He’s getting on a bit.
The ceramics activities hour at the Aged Gods Home must be a favourite of His.
The book club would get a bit tedious though. Just one volume per eternity.
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Isaiah 29:16 Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter’s clay: for shall the work say of Him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of Him that framed it, He had no understanding?
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Touche.
A slightly mangled quote but very apt. I get the message.
But still, if you’re gonna have an anthropomorphic God who is a heavenly Father who gets jealous and throws apocalyptic temper tantrums then surely you should start thinking about some nice quiet place to put Him where He can be relaxed and peaceful during His senior eons.
Or am I esteeming the Potter as half-baked clay again?
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Nothing wrong with jealousy, it’s a natural reaction from someone who cares greatly for those he or she loves and cares for.
The negative image given to jealousy is purely demonic = Satan’s handiwork via the corrupt judiciary, media and Hollywood.
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Oh, for crying out loud! Of course God has no religion. He is perfect.
Human beings need the Christian religion precisely because humanity needs to be saved from itself.
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Only deluded hu-man beings and deluded Mankind create and need the Christian Religion = Satan’s gross deception.
Oh and btw a Hu-man is not a Man (a son of Adam) and a Man (a son of Adam) is not a Hu-man – two totally different species.
Hu; Hu-mans; Canaanites; The Serpent Seed:
https://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/2021/08/18/hu-hu-mans-canaanites-the-serpent-seed/
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Funny you mention that.
Yesterday on the bus there was a guy talking to someone invisible about exactly that distinction. In six or seven sentences. Over and over. Loudly. With steadily increasing vehemence.
One of his most important points seemed to be that hu-man babies start work at 11 months old. He seemed very certain about it. And that it mattered.
When he finally got off there was a collective sigh of relief from several other passengers.
True story.
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Oh yes demon possession is not uncommon in these last days of the last days – hypnotists, sorcerers, shamans, mediums and necromancers are all in great demand. Perhaps you were not aware.
One Scriptural aside is very interesting as a ‘demon’stration of this phenomenon:
Revelation 21:8 (KJV) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and SORCERERS, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Sorcerers – G5333 – φαρμακεύς pharmakeús, far-mak-yoos’; from φάρμακον phármakon (a drug, i.e. spell-giving potion); a druggist (“pharmacist”) or poisoner, i.e. (by extension) a magician:—sorcerer.
Here’s the sticky end for Fauci and his fellow psychopathic criminals. Who said the Holy Scriptures were not relevant for our ‘modern’ world? LOL
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Every civilization has grown up around religion. The greatest civilization in human history is Christian Western Civilization. Western Civilization is proof Christianity’s greatness as a religion and its benefit to mankind.
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Lol. In spite of Christianity which resists nearly every advance.
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“The liturgy of all Christian sects is meaningless.” I like the first line. I would like to expand on that, “All liturgy is bull poopy.” I would rather not talk about it and disregard it all as mostly fiction. My question in, “Where does the supernatural realm of heaven exist?” My answer, between human ears. Cheers. GROG
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They require a certain amount of pomp and showmanship because it has no substance, not because of substance.
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It is quite amazing, the rituals and praying. They all do it. Recently I watched some Shinto events. Gods and spirits everywhere. All religions are a scam, but one wonders how they can believe. GROG
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God has a strict process of how he demands to be approached. Kind of similar (totally the same thing) to the tyrant kings of the old tigress and Euphrates cultures, or the alpha primate. Bow down, prostrate, humbly beg for leniency.
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It is those who speak for God who set the demands and it always involves money. GROG
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You’ll get no requests for money from me – freely I have been given so freely I give to all those who listen and hear. My blog FYI https://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/about/
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Seventh day Adventist, Mormon, and Jehovah’s Witness all rolled into one cigar.
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Not at all – you’re 100% wrong and judgemental to boot.
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Well you sound like a mix of that coupled with conspiracy theory and aliens. Serpents, devils, demons? Makes an interesting play.
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I trust you will not deem these truthful quotes as ad hominen!
“‘Conspiracy Theorist’ – a derogatory put-down term dreamt up by the CIA to discredit those who questioned the official narrative of the JFK assassination.”
— Kevin S. Shipp – former CIA agent.
“‘Conspiracy Theory’ – a ruling class pejorative term for class consciousness.” “Anyone and everyone who deploys the conspiracy theory slur is a reactionary enemy of revolutionary science and truth and/or a juvenile screen damaged imbecile – with absolutely no exceptions”
— Phil Greaves
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Sorry if I judged you the way you judged me. That SDA video really got me. I have friends that are of that persuasion and they are super nice, yet think I’m going to hell
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You’re not going to hell, you’re already there – this is Satan’s world only your being blind you cannot see it.
No one is going to hell. All this hell fire and brimstone for the lost masses is just fake Christian lies and BS – it’s blasphemously evil. Here’s my article AGAIN:
Why Are There Two Resurrections?
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“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things”.—Isaiah 45:7
Your comment is a contradiction.
Learn to trust the good and the bad. It is natures way of providing balance to the organism. The yin and the yang. If you understand polarity you can really get a grip on the ebb and flow of all things— no deities required.
There are no resurrections. That is a faith statement without evidence.
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In what way is my comment a contradiction? Just trying ascertain your weird logic.
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Copy that. “ this is Satan’s world only your being blind”— According to your Bible and arguably the most acclaimed prophet of the Old Testament, god created all you see, good and bad. It’s not satans world at all, unless your into the deep, deep, underground stuff.
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The Creation is not the world. The world is the system or, in the modern vernacular, the matrix. And the system began with the fall of Adam and Eve, when they chose to do Satan’s will. From then on in Satan ruled through his descendants via Cain, to Canaan post-flood, to the Jews, today OK!?
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I see what you are trying to do but that mythology is for the imagery it can teach. It wasn’t literal—I thought you knew that.
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Not at all the Holy Scriptures are a True living account of the history of mankind and his arch-enemy hu-man kind.
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More like none of the holy scriptures. Obviously it has filled you with hate willing to believe anything associated with racism and hate. The one true god revealed.
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Gosh Jim. After spending a big part of the day with this “truth-teller,” I’m surprised you remain so in the dark about the “real” truth as shared by he-that-shall-remain-anonymous (but also called “Messenger Charles”).
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He’s vile. I’m sorry I engaged but eventually he revealed himself. That’s 2 for 2 in one day? Jeez Nan!
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There will always be the Weak … thus, Why Christianity Succeeds.
Why Christianity Fails is because the Strong see through the B.S. 😁
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@Nan, The Father has no need of the ‘strong’. The ‘strong’ are a dime a dozen. It is the ‘strong’ have turned this earth into the Commie Cultural Marxist shit hole that it has become. Those that The Father calls are these:
1 Corinthians 1:26-28 (MCV) For you see your CALLING, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty (strong), not many noble, are CALLED: 27 But God hath CHOSEN the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath CHOSEN the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God CHOSEN, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought (zero) things that are:
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I guess that explains those who say they’re chosen by God.
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No, it explains The Truth about those The Father calls to His Son Yashua Messiah (Jesus Christ). The ‘strong’ tend to have way too much IQ, with the accompanying vanity and ego that goes with it, to be of any use to Yashua Messiah (Jesus Christ).
Not all, but in the main they tend to be unteachable.
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He only accepts dummies?
That’s a bit elitist isn’t it?
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Not dummies, for generally we can all speak, so we’re not without tongues. Elitist? Oh no, we’re here to humbly serve and teach, but as kings and Royal priests in The Kingdom Of God, in the future.
The only elitists are The Rothschild Jews and their Jewish errand boys Schwab, Soros, Gates and Kissinger etc.
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Don’t forget the King of the Jews.
That Jesus bloke.
I’m sure He’s behind it all.
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Two articles to alleviate your ignorance:
Yashua Messiah (Jesus Christ) was not a Jew:
https://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/2016/06/13/was-jesus-christ-a-jew/
Why Did Pilate Write: JESUS OF NAZARETH KING OF THE JEWS:
https://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/2020/07/20/and-pilate-wrote-jesus-of-nazareth-the-king-of-the-jews/
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What’s with this alleviating my ignorance?
Are you trying to make God reject me or something?
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Reject you? Whatever made you think that? Whether you are called or you’re not called is nothing to do with me. It’s The Father’s decision ALONE!
You referred to Yashua Messiah as being King of The Jews which is 100% error, so I gave you those links to enlighten you with The Truth!
If you wish to remain ignorant carry on.
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I seem to remember someone telling me that if I had too much IQ I won’t be any use to Yashua Messiah.
But I guess if Jesus wasn’t a Jew he wasn’t descended from the House of David, so he wasn’t the Messiah.
Or am I overthinking again?
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No, you’re just jumping to wrong conclusions based on your lack of Spiritual knowledge.
Without Spiritual knowledge, thinking is just punching in the air.
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I don’t think you have any idea of cabs spiritual journey.
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All I know is what he or she is saying here and I am answering. I can do no more, unless you think telepathy is a Gift of the Holy Spirit, which it is not.
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Thats why a true minister would know his flock. I actually enjoy the conversations and ideals of religious discussion. You seem to forget that probably 90% here used to be just like you, being the best Christian they could. I allow a lot. Buddhism lets the student persist in his folly until he awakens on his own in an instant. Keep preaching—you’ll get there.
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“Thats why a true minister would know his flock.”
Up until this moment in time I have no flock here, but if there were potential sheep here they would have no issues with what I have said. The flock know Yashua Messiah’s voice – The Truth and I speak The Truth.
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You can’t even give your god a fair shot at this when your this much of a braggart. There’s no dialog, just you telling the whole world how it is. It’s nuts. Nobody learns that way unless you have a North Korean piano teacher. Carry on.
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The Father needs no fair shots, if He wants someone He calls them, and that’s it.
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As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil—James 4:16
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Tut Tut, never confuse Godly confidence and authority with boasting and arrogance, for I boast solely in Yashua Messiah and The Father, not in myself. If I were still me I would not even be here at all, but down the pub smoking and downing pints.
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Aah, so you had a crisis bring you in. Interesting studies on what that does to your hormones and neurology. Funny, I just took care of those issues myself. No god is needed. It’s all you brother.
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Most people have a ‘crisis’ when they are called and chosen – as I have already said The Father has no need of people who think “No God is needed”.
He says “fine you carry on sunshine – I’ll see you later in the Resurrection – then you’ll see how much I am needed!” LOL
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Well it’s usually either substance abuse, a woman, or financial crisis. Have you ever studied the neural pathways of belief, especially from trauma? No hormones=no spirit. You have deceived yourself for a cookie.
Sound familiar, selling you birthright for a bowl of soup.
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It doesn’t matter, The Father can use anyone if they’re humbled enough, and ready for His call. He turns them around and lifts them up, no matter how wretched their lives have become. I KNOW, I have met some of these people and they have shared their experiences.
No shrinks, quacks or fake bible thumpers, just miraculous healings.
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Funny how many people say “I used to smoke like a chimney, drink like a fish and do drugs by the bucketful! But then I saw the Light!” without wondering about cause and effect.
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Agreed. There are pretty well established cognitive and neurological processes that show how this is done. Trauma is a great tool that religions have capitalized on, but I know for certain the power is already in the individual. Cracking that open seems to be the puzzle.
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Maybe by wondering about cause and effect.
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You’re not responsible for anything you do or say?
You’re a zombie for Jesus?
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Or a Ugandan despot as a singing coach.
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If you’re going to offer “proof” of your position, suggest you use valid and acceptable sources rather than off-the-cuff websites that don’t even identify the writer/owner … but are GREAT sources to support your misinformation.
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According to the website the author is someone called “Messenger Charles – AKA TruthNotDoctrine”.
With a name like that he must know what he’s talking about, right?
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I have no position, positions are for ‘clever’ people such as yourself and The Truth is not a position.
Valid and acceptable sources in whose eyes? Oh yes, other secular carnal minded know-nothings – impressive!
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Are you carnal minded Nan?
Hmm. Maybe we should meet up sometime.
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Oh my! Do I detect a bit of anger in your response? A tiny, tiny touch of annoyance?
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God is angry every day.
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It may not be senile frustration. Perhaps He just needs more fibre.
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Lol
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Ah the cowardly moderating starts!! LMAO!
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Moderating? Every comment gets through until you start losing your shit with ad hominem nonsense.
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OK then, for I never use ad hominem – it’s just so lame.
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You called me a coward instead of addressing the comment. Your comment made me laugh. An appropriate response might be—what part of my comment made you laugh? Then we would have dialog instead of name calling. Understand?
I give far too much freedom here to deal with any more of it.
Of course you think you have the answers, but your approach infers you’ve missed the point of the gospel, or it doesn’t make you special in any way. I thought with your knowledge level you could at least pretend for Jesus to apply civility.
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My comment came up: “This comment is waiting for moderation” So I responded with my appropriate comment, for you had not moderated up until that point.
I therefore thought you had run away.
I am not special, but my message is. I don’t THINK I HAVE THE ANSWERS – I KNOW I HAVE THE ANSWERS, for they are God given and go against all the religious garbage out their.
I have missed the point of the Gospel have I? Do you actually know what The Gospel message is?
Yashua Messiah and civility? what like this do you mean:
John 8:44 (MCV) Ye are of your father The Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in The Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
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Ahhh yes … the pseudonym for the bible … religious garbage.
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Yes you may be surprised to know that there is a lot of religious garbage within the pages of the KJV Bible.
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😮❗
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Where would you like me to start? Genesis 4:1 is a good place, which I deal with here:
Did Eve Have Sex With The Devil or Did She Just Eat Some Fruit?:
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Oh yes! That wonderful biblical scholar who can’t even reveal his true name or how he comes by his astute opinions on such a “worthy” subject.
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My name is not relevant, just like Clint Eastwood in his films. LOL All that is relevant is The Truth in my articles.
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If you were truly smart about Christianity and its book, I might continue my conversation with you. But since you aren’t –but think you are– I’m leaving it all to Jim and any others that have time to waste. Cheers! 🍷
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Bye! Thanks for the chat.
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Err, you didn’t pick up your copy of the Bible from a red lit store where half the customers were wearing trench coats did you?
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You’ve definitely got a point there. The reputation the Biblical Jesus has as a tolerant peacemaker has been hugely overstated. I mean, the guy couldn’t even tolerate fig trees that failed to grow fruit out of season.
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That’s nonsense. They become learned because they are teachable. A good portion of the believers in my area are anti intellectual. That in no way would make them chosen, but vain in themselves with an ignorant ego.
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Well, he’s got a point really.
We’re all kinda vain about our knowledge and that serves to blind us to perspectives that aren’t compatible with it.
But I haven’t noticed dumb fundos being any more resistant to that than arrogant professors (not that the two categories are exclusive). Even “beginner’s mind” Buddhists can be pretty fucking insufferable in their intellectual conceit. I’m not exempting myself either (most of the time). Brainwanking is a hard habit to break.
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One of my favorite Hofferisms—
The impression somehow prevails that the true believer, particularly the religious individual, is a humble person. The truth is the surrendering and humbling of the self breed pride and arrogance. The true believer is apt to see himself as one of the chosen, the salt of the earth, the light of the world, a prince disguised in meekness, who is destined to inherit the earth and the kingdom of heaven too. He who is not of his faith is evil; he who will not listen will perish.
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‘Learned’ in secular philosophical garbage, rendering them unteachable in REAL KNOWLEDGE, that is, Spiritual Knowledge = The Truth.
‘Believers’ in your area? being believers in what I would ask?
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You know what believers is referencing, but I can spell it out for you. Jesus and alt right populism.
So now you rehash a few scriptures to affirm what Hoffer was alluding to and now you have the secret knowledge no one else can grasp. You have mentioned the Rothchilds and the big conspiracy while biting on the biggest one of all time. Roman Paulism.
The interesting thing about faith is its demand for zero evidence. It is crucial for the trick to work on the foibles of human psychology that no evidence—only belief is demanded and declared a virtue. Giving points to the ego for something mankind has no immunity to—belief.
Further more, the natural man is actually the believer —everyone is compelled to belief by the almighty question—something else humans have no immunity to. Forced to ponder what no other creature has ever even considered.
Why is it do you suppose everything requires a belief?
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Roman Paulism? What secular nonsense is this? Paul was an Israelite Benjaminite by blood – a Semite who happened to be a Roman Citizen, but he was no Roman, nor was he a Jew. So I presume you have grasped onto some anti-pauline internet garbage and run with it.
I don’t believe, I KNOW, most belief on this earth is blind.
“The interesting thing about faith is its demand for zero evidence.”
Faith makes no demands – faith is a free gift from God along with grace.
If I were to make any demands it would be for secular road sweepers to stick to road sweeping, and not attempt brain surgery without training and divine intervention in their lives.
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You KNOW! Right up until you don’t. Finally, thetruthdoctrine blog has answered the age old questions.
Maybe you should get to know your audience before you do any preaching. I have 50 years of experience in Christianity. It was all right there in the open but it takes a special miracle to see belief is the great koan.
The problem here is you actually have no faith. Real faith is total trust in letting go—the faith of an atheist. The key to the mysteries is unbelief. Tru dat!
If you were up to the challenge you might look at the psychology of belief before you start accusing anyone. Your starting to sound like that other guy.
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I KNOW, and I know that I know – It is what it is, and once you know you cannot unknow.
If you find this Truth offensive it is only history repeating itself, for many of those first century people were offended by what Yashua Messiah said, same stuff, just a different messenger.
I never accuse anyone, especially the lost and unsaved, for unless The Father calls them they will remain lost and unsaved, plus, they do the job on themselves and need no assistance from me.
As for letting go, I did that 35+ years ago.
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“ for unless The Father calls them they will remain lost and unsaved”
So what are you doing here? Self anointed representative of a formless spirit trying to save what only it can save?
I KNOW, and I know that you don’t know. I was just like you one time til the house of cards was too much for my integrity.
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Looking for those that The Father might be calling and are searching for The Truth. That’s what I am doing here.
“I was just like you one time til the house of cards was too much for my integrity.”
No, you were never like me, for you were most likely mixed up in a counterfeit church (a house of cards), which pissed you off, and instead of continuing your search, you settled for your integrity, which will never save you, anymore than the counterfeit church you were involved with could have saved you.
That’s my guess, but feel free to correct me.
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Oh, and the truth isn’t offensive —hint…it’s you
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Well Yashua Messiah came to be an offence, so if you’re offended by me – GREAT!
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Biblical question … why is Yashua considered the Messiah? The Jewish religion is the genesis of most of today’s religious thought, yet the TRUE Jews (meaning those who support Judaism as written) say he is NOT the predicted Messiah. So what makes you claim that he is? (BTW, I know the answer but I’m curious as to your response.)
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You have already answered your question = The Jewish RELIGION!! God has no religion and especially the Jews’ RELIGION = TALMUDIC JUDAISM, which is 100% satanic.
You make the universal error of thinking that The Jews are the chosen people of God, when the opposite is The Truth, which they openly admit:
“We are a chosen people. Most Jews do not like to admit it but our god is Lucifer and we Jews are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive.”
— The Jew, Harold W. Rosenthal
“Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a ‘Jew’ or to call a contemporary Jew an ‘Israelite’ or a ‘Hebrew’. The first Hebrews may not have been Jews at all…”
— 1980 Jewish Almanac, p. 3.
I’ll firm that up by stating that the Jews were never Hebrews at all.
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Thank you so much for the misinformation. Just what I expected.
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Well if it’s misinformation feel free to prove that it is, and which part of my comment did you deem as misinformation?
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Don’t be so grabby. It’s not your comment at all. You’re down the pub having a pint remember.
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I went ahead and blocked him after his antisemitic, racist, and islamophonic hate speech. You won’t be hearing from him here any more. I do have some boundaries. The quackery I can tolerate but I won’t enable that level of disgust.
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That’s a bit of a shame. His bigotry was almost self-satire. Blazing Saddles style racism.
But yeah, I think I’d have done the same on my blog. Dunno how the laws work in the US but here in Aus you can be held legally responsible for hate speech on social media you administer. No matter how ridiculous it is.
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Between he and SoM I had quite a lot of hate thrown yesterday. Truth guy was just too much for my loving ways.
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Ahem.
I’d argue the Vedic religions alone are the genesis of more of today’s religious thought than the Abrahamic ones. Unless you count thoughts by number of adherents rather than breadth, scope and variation.
Even dualist monotheism is something the Jewish religion picked up from Zoroastrianism during the Babylonian Exile (the Three Wise Men were also Zoroastrian Magi), which is why the Yahweh of Exodus was a jealous God. He was an upstart in a Levant of many Gods trying to establish a monopoly by covenant over the Children of Israel.
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cabrogal — all this is most likely quite true. I was merely pointing out to this individual, who seems to think all Jews are spawns of Satan, that THEY are the ones that started the whole Yahweh thing (which then morphed into Christianity).
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Well there’s no arguing that. Unless you’re an antisemitic nut-job who thinks Jesus wasn’t Jewish.
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Good excuse for your own poor self control. Trying to offend for the word? I don’t think you get this Christian thing quite the way you think you do.
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Read this to yourself whilst looking in a mirror: “I don’t think you get this Christian thing quite the way you think you do.”
I will remind you that it was YOU that left your ‘Christian’ life, not me, and after 35+ years of study, I think I qualify for knowing a little more than you, who’s been relying on his integrity. LOL
I’ll let you into a little secret: NO ONE who is CALLED AND CHOSEN by The Father EVER leaves the TRUE CHRISTIAN FAITH – NO ONE!
So this tells me one definite thing: YOU were never a Christian from the start – you were always involved with counterfeiters who led you astray and that’s why you left them for your integrity.
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That’s complete nonsense. No true Scotsman is a desperation. I know you apologist in your infancy like to use this rubbish, but it doesn’t work that way.
You my friend are an atheist and just one last grasp to hang on to a faith that isn’t. Trust your doubt. There is nothing to fear outside your perversion of belief
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You have lost me again —- Scotsman? Apologist???? Atheist???? I see no connection in this to my previous comment to you.
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The no true Scotsman fallacy. Look it up. You use that to say I was never a true Christian.
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Of course you were never a true Christian, and I have already explained why. No apologies for you not being able to understand it.
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I understand it too well which is why I left. You’ll get there.
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Maybe not, Jim, if he continues to use the same source as he’s referenced here.
Should we pray for him???? 😈
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He’s contradicting himself. A little bit ago he said he’s not a mind reader. That telepathy is not a gift of the spirit. He’s just repeating others in his religion which he’s not a member of. Funny how similar all his stuff is to every other believer that’s doing it right—I mean, uniquely their way.
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Yeah I know there were some like that in the first century:
John 6:65 (MCV) And He said, Therefore said I unto you, That no MAN can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 6:66 (MCV) From that many of His learners went back, and walked no more with Him.
John 6:67-68 (KJV) Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the Words of Eternal Life.
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Are we talking ‘God the Father’ or ‘the Godfather’?
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No kidding
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But it smells like only yesterday …
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“One of my favorite Hofferisms—
“The impression somehow prevails that the true believer, particularly the religious individual, is a humble person. The truth is the surrendering and humbling of the self breed pride and arrogance. The true believer is apt to see himself as one of the chosen, the salt of the earth, the light of the world, a prince disguised in meekness, who is destined to inherit the earth and the kingdom of heaven too. He who is not of his faith is evil; he who will not listen will perish.”
1) I am not religious. 2) How I see myself is an irrelevance. 3) He who is not of my faith is not called and chosen, whether he be secular and lost or a counterfeit Christian. 4) Nowhere have I said that any man or woman will perish. Looks like Hoffer was fooled and duped by fake Christians.
Yet another of my articles to teach you The Truth: Why Are There Two Resurrections?:
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Yes. Every Christian believes the others are doing it wrong. In this I agree.
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Ah but there are millions of Christians of religion and then there are Christians. Would you know how to determine the difference?
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I know Christian’s like to distance themselves from their religion. I don’t really give them that except in special circumstances. Rarely an apologist deserves such leeway because they carry too much contradiction and hypocrisy.
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I have no religion, so I have nothing to distance myself from.
In contrast, fake Christians will often distance themselves from their religion, for it is guilty of such heinous atrocities in the past.
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You sure quote a lot of Bible to claim you’re not a Christian.
It is guilty in the past because of the same emergent zealousy you exhibit here. Never has Christianity had complete power when it wasn’t atrocious. That might tell you something about where it leads, but it won’t. It always leads to gross abuse and power if left unchecked.
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In what way can my zeal be interpreted as a desire to hurt anyone? You’re accusing me of a crime based upon religious zeal, and Christianity is NOT a religion. Yashua Messiah never hurt a fly, and THAT is the Christian WAY!
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That’s never been the outcome of Christianity and you know it.
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Now you’ve lost me.
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I bet not. Have you ever studied any other beliefs for more than a cursory overview? Your religion isn’t special. It’s not even pleasant. Your taking the joy out of the journey, which apparently exactly what your journey is. But don’t pretend any more.
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I keep telling you that I have no religion. Try finding the word ‘Religion’ in The Four Gospels!!
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I didn’t ask you that. Have you ever studied with the same zeal, another belief system?
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Following Yashua Messiah is NOT a belief system! Only people of RELIGION have belief systems.
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That’s about the dumbest thing you’ve said yet. You must really feel special.
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Oh yes, I have been made special by The Father, just as Paul said:
Romans 8:29-30 (MCV) For whom He (The Father) did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also CALLED: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.
See: Predestined; Justified; Glorified – you can’t get much more special than that, and you gave it all up for your integrity!
That old integrity thing is beginning to look like the booby prize. LOL
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Delusion is grande, isn’t it.
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Holy Scripture – The Truth can never be delusional.
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Must feel pretty smug about all this. It’s nothing more than run of the mill apologetics with no evidence. It feels special because it’s all you know. That doesn’t make it true. Had you been born into a Muslim family I’m certain sharia would be your best friend.
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Smugness has nothing to do with it. It is what it is and there is no edge or agenda to it whatsoever.
It’s The Truth and Yashua Messiah is The Truth and He needs no religion, just those who WANT to follow Him voluntarily as brothers and sisters and friends and be in His Kingdom on this earth.
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So when Muslims introduce you to their conviction in Allah, it should be completely compatible to you’re conviction—which is nothing short of where you were born and to whom. Regardless of what your particular unreligion is, it is a fanatical religion powered by some inherent quirk that makes you ultimately fundamental. How else could you dismiss the contradiction and brutality Christianity has wielded everywhere it planted its flag? But yours is different? You know how many times I have heard that?
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LOL Muslims or Mudslimes as they are otherwise affectionately known here in the UK are 100% deceived. They’re monotheistic dogs, just like the Jews, only the Jews are worse, being Satan’s Serpent Seed from The Garden, via Canaan post-flood.
My little expose on all things monotheistic:
The Satanic Curse of Monotheism – Is God ONE? – Part 1:
Oh yes there’s nothing more fundamental than The Truth, it’s just a shame that you’re a stranger to Him and it.
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It’s funny how easily you validate your own beliefs and condemn the others. Yours and theirs are NO DIFFERENT whatsoever, and you can only see that through unbelief. Hoffer was right about you. You are the one he was writing about.
Your so far in it you’ve taken the mythology as gospel (but you don’t have a religion)
What a head job. You and god! What do you say to that that hasn’t been visited by every inflated religious ego for millennia.
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You sound embittered Jim and that’s bad for your health – you need to let go of that and just go back into world = “eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow you die!” and leave this topic alone. It’s not really for you.
I validate nothing – The Truth stands and there is no argument against it, just feeble protests which are like rain off a duck’s back.
This Hoffer, who sounds like your god, is just another know-nothing intellectual who’s full of aca-demon-ic BS. Obviously a refuge for ex-fake Christians.
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I’m not bitter at all. I laugh now because they got me. It’s a convincing trick.
Hoffer nailed your true believer personality. I don’t think anyone is as smart as you though, with God as your mouthpiece. What do you say to that? Wow! Btw, there are no such things as demons either. I wonder how many seizure disorders yours folks killed off exorcising those “demons”. Thank god for modern medicine. No devils required.
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You’re not being truthful Jim – this whole blog of yours is some kind of vendetta against the counterfeit Cainite-Judeo-Christian Religion, which is really just futility as Satan looks after his own.
I am going to look up this Hoffer idiot and see what he’s all about – There’s nothing I love more than shredding the utterings of arrogant, ignorant morons.
Oh and rest assured demons definitely exist, your blog is evidence of it.
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😮😂😈
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I’ve attained Arkenaten status.
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Oh, I thought you said good bye?
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The devil made me do it.
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Oh yes, of course, who else?
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Haha. Then I’ll leave you with this truth
“In order to be effective, a doctrine must not be understood, but has rather to be believed in. A doctrine that is understood is shorn of its strength—If a doctrine is not unintelligible, it has to be vague. If neither unintelligible nor vague, it has to be unverifiable—
Eric Hoffer
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That’s why I have The Truth and not doctrine. Doctrine (dogma) is for charlatans, dissemblers and masters of sophistry like Hoffer.
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Your truth is not The truth. Sorry man. It looks a lot different from my aperture.
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Yashua Messiah is The Truth and your being a stranger to The Truth makes you incapable of discerning The Truth. You love too many lies.
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I love everything. Truth and your lies. I just let nature take its course. It’s pretty conceited to think one can outsmart evolution, or his own organism. It’s one of the reasons I let you continue on…belief and unbelief can’t exist without the other. Nothing is in error and the organism
Is working perfectly.
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You ‘let’ me carry on because The Father is allowing me to carry on – you can do nothing that He does not allow, or initiate, even if you block me it will be His hand that is in it, for no doubt He will have considered that I have wasted too much of my precious time here already, and have cast too many pearls before you little piggies.
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Lol. Funny. Will he also allow me to contact US department of Justice to report your hate speech and anti-Semitic remarks? I’m on the website now. It looks like they have an international task force that would love to address your comments.
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Hello?
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There’s the pharmaceuticals industry. That’s gotta come close.
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Here is CR’s comment to me when I shared your comment here with him. From his perspective
“ You want me to address the anti-Semitic, racist Islamaphobe conspiracy theorist who thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a servant of Satan? No thanks!
You’re not going to accomplish anything with someone like that”
So you sir are treading on dangerous ground. Hate speech and pure hatred from you and it is amazing you can’t see it.
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You give him the link to these two videos just for starters:
https://worldtruthvideos.website/watch/anti-semitism-it-039-s-a-trick-we-always-use-it_WWRM8VPbIxHQHdd.html
https://worldtruthvideos.website/watch/the-jew-is-the-problem_y69wHABSi3MQZL9.html
Then he can have a read of this comment:
“The goal of abolishing the white race is, on its face, so desirable that some may find it hard to believe that it could incur any opposition other than from committed WHITE SUPREMACISTS….Make no mistake about it: we intend to keep bashing the dead white males, and the live ones, and the females too, until the social construct known as the white race is destroyed.”
– Noel Ignatiev, Jewish Harvard professor and co-founder of ‘Race Traitor’ magazine.
And then this comment:
“All I want for Christmas is white genocide.”
— Jewish Professor Ciccariello-Maher, Drexel University
And this comment: “I think that there is a resurgence of anti-Semitism because at this point in time Europe has not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think we (Jews) are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which must take place. Europe is not going to be the monolithic societies [sic] that they once were in the last century. Jews are going to be at the centre of that. It’s a huge transformation for Europe to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode, and Jews will be resented because of our leading role. But without that leading role, and without that transformation, Europe will not survive. Every journey begins with a first step we must end the so called white race. What is the white race, define it for me. It’s an 18th century social construct designed by privileged aristocrats.”
– The Jewess, Barbara Lerner Spectre
After the above perhaps he would like to discuss his Cultural Marxist ‘hate speech’ as I am quite an expert on that as well.
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You have some serious issues. Get help. God is not doing it for you. Hope you fact check you’re blatherings.
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Oh a little more on the origins of Islam:
https://worldtruthvideos.website/watch/the-islamic-vatican-connection-by-prof-walter-veith_gM5BHdgLIIc6zZr.html
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Yes, the world-truth videos… you are a fringe nutter I see. Do you have a secret handshake too? Oh I forgot, that’s the Mormons, not seventh day Adventist. Your killing me man. Please stop kidding around here.
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Kidding?? Not so, I am deadly serious. No I am not a Freemason or a Mormon or an Adventist.
All these groups are RELIGIOUS groups, what would I have in common with them as a member when God has no religion.
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Oh and isn’t being called a nutter, ad hominen?
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A bit. I can back that up if you’d like by sharing that link for you.
Seriously man, life is not as serious as this. It’s just not. It’s a game, even in the Bible.
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Feel free for it’s all been said before by the demonic first century Jews:
John 10:20 (KJV) And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye Him?
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We have Jewish readers here. I think CR could easily dispute and undermine your claims about Judaism.
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Who is CR?
I make no claims. The Truth is declared, not claimed. However, once those Jews get started then you’ll hear some lying claims! LOL
1) We be not born of fornication.
2) We have one Father, even God.
3) They answered and said unto Him, Abraham is our father.
4) We be Abraham’s seed,
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CR is one of our learned readers. He stated
“ You want me to address the anti-Semitic, racist Islamaphobe conspiracy theorist who thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a servant of Satan? No thanks!
You’re not going to accomplish anything with someone like that”.
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Looks like he’s a coward too.
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It’s no wonder you keep your name hidden.
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Wise as serpents harmless as doves.
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Yeah, He may have been a bit herbicidal from time to time (when killing fruit trees was considered a serious crime) but at least he left the bugs alone.
And He did say he’d come not “to bring peace, but a sword … to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law … and a man’s enemies will be those of his own household”.
He was a bit heavy on money-changers when the mood came over Him, but who likes them?
And there was the bit where He told His disciples to sell their cloaks to buy swords.
But, yeah, on His good days He was quite a peaceful fellow, especially considering how violent His Father is. I’d have a drink with Him. Especially if He was transmuting the water.
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e.g. Anti-semitic pogroms.
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But condemning each other’s beliefs has always been central to their religion.
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With a dunking chair?
Worth a try.
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Gotta ask, why does the Father want to hiss on me anyway?
Hope that’s not a typo.
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What makes you think God wants to hiss or even piss on you? Never mind that He’s not a physical being anyway, so has no need to urinate!
Do you have a self loathing complex of some kind?
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The URL of your blog.
You seem to be quite knowledgeable about His mental health issues.
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Who do you think you will praying to? This will be interesting.
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Jim: “This is the promise of Christianity —never arriving at anything.”
Zoe slipping into her previous fundamentalist shape wear . . . responds: Hallelujah because Jesus did all the “arriving” for us.
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Jim: “Do they need a remission of sins for simply being born an organism?”
Stunning isn’t it? As well, it’s an opportunity (the baptism) to recheck the parents when they ask the parents if they rebuke Satan and all his evil works.
Just once wouldn’t it be great if one of those parents responded with: Well, sure, okay . . . but seriously, we know Satan isn’t real . . . right?
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It’s an opportunity to get your name on the rolls too. “We have millions of members”, but isn’t it strange that so many of them are children unable to legally form an agreement of any kind.
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I watched a grandchild get soaked with the holy oil because said child was moving around and sort of pissed the priest off. I watched as he methodically kept pouring the oil, once, twice and one more time because damn it all, he couldn’t get the oil right where God required it. The entire episode was about the priest. I was aghast at it all. If it hadn’t been for years of therapy, I would have had a panic attack right there an then.
Consent doesn’t exist.
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Or how about, “That might not be a good idea. We don’t know for sure the little tyke is saved and we d0n’t want to offend anyone.”
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Jim: ” My buddy Larry says Jesus cured him, but he’s still in recovery and always will be.”
Jesus is rehab.
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Rehab that is the Placebo-effect Zoe, as I’m sure you already know well firsthand. 😉 ❤️
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Been there. 🙂
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This post is composed of statements of personal opinion presented as self-evident truths. The author, Jim, does not make one rational argument supporting his cause. Here is an example from the first sentence:
“The proposed atonement of Jesus has done nothing to cure anything.”
That sentence stands alone with so supporting evidence at all.
Here is another example of a personal opinion stated as the Gospel truth with absolutely no supporting evidence:
The liturgy of all Christian sects is meaningless.”
That is the second sentence of this publication. At least this statement is couched in a paragraph that is more of the same: one personal opinion after the other expressed as the Gospel truth .
Who does that? Who preaches personal opinion as the Gospel truth? Religious fanatics, that’s who. And who believes the Gospel truth preached by a religious fanatic? Other religious fanatics, that’s who.
What this post demonstrates is that atheism is religious fanaticism.
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Everything I say is supported by personal observations.—seeing the trick is pretty easy when you don’t believe it. You would never know because you choose to believe. You’re the only one arguing here. Maybe you are the problem.
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Jim, I am an observer too. So what? Where is your evidence to support your personal opinions?
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Greater signs than these follow them that believe….Either Jesus was a liar or nobody really believes any of it.
I stood at the edge of my 40 acres and wondered —what if I just held up my hand commanded this farmland to be flat in the name of Jesus? It didn’t work. None of it does. Try it out. Part of the problem today is book learning has little practical application. We learn now from commentary and books about book. Libraries grow from osmosis. The Bible is fiction. Give it a whirl.
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Jim, So to prove your point, you quote the Bible. That is pathetic. I am sure your atheist buddies agree.
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So where are the signs? You want me to believe but your text is full of bs. I posted a short link with other evidence
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Jim, It’s your post that needs explaining. Please explain it. Where is your evidence supporting all your opinions?
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The most glaring evidence is the failed claims of Jesus and the Bible. If you can’t see that, there is no evidence I can provide that wound open your eyes that the king has no clothes.
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Jim, Your personal opinion is not evidence to support your personal opinions. Can’t you see that? Evidence is factual, not personal opinion.
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Your handwaving. I gave you evidence that your truth claims are false. Try it out, I did. I laid my hands on the sick and prayed for miracles and crickets.
In the mouth of two or three shall every word be established. That why I linked the short story. Another witness of Jesus Christ.
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Jim, I haven’t made any truth claims. Where is the evidence to prove the opinions you expressed in your post?
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Personal experience is evidence, not opinion. I tested the promises and prayed very sincerely. Nothing happened. 1 prayer is all it takes, but I trusted my elders—it was my fault. Try it out then report back to me.
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Jim, Personal experience is not evidence. Clearly you have no idea what evidence is. This post has no value at all since everyone has a personal opinion.
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If This post has no value at all … then why do you keep contributing to it?
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He needs to validate his doubt..I mean belief
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🙏⛪📖
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Nan, All I have done here is demand evidence from Jim to support his personal opinions. It’s very simple really.
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Nan, My comments are not contributions. My comments demonstrate conclusively that atheism is for simple minded people who can’t think, evaluate evidence or make any kind of rational argument.
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Lol. Hello kettle.
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Jim, All I have done here is respond to your post. I have asked that you support your claims with evidence. Since this is the 5th or 6th time I have asked for evidence and all you have done is try to change the subject, I conclude that you have no evidence to support your post.
On my blog I claim that God exists and then provide scientific proof. On your blog, you provide nothing.
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Thanks. Happy you enjoy it. I offered you a valid way to retest your faith. You’re afraid.
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Jim, If you cannot back up your offering with evidence, then it is not valid.
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I gave you evidence but you wouldn’t know actual evidence if it slapped you in the face.
Prove all things. I did. It’s funny mentally challenged Christian’s like yourself are to timid to test your own beliefs.
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Jim, Your personal opinions are not facts. You think your opinions are the Gospel truth, therefore serve as evidence. That is not the case. I have expressed this 5 or 6 times, but you do not comprehend that simple logical truth.
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So I have to trust your cronies for what can be considered personal revelation?
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Jim, So now I have cronies? Sober up and then get back to me.
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So if I were to set up a prayer chain to heal a pedophile and it doesn’t work, is that evidence or opinion?
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Jim, You have changed the subject as is characteristic of someone who has argued with himself and lost.
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You were staying the other day you have proof of gods existence. Still waiting…
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Didn’t you read his blog?
The proof goes like this:
Genetics use the terms ‘transcription’ and ‘translation’ to describe how DNA acts as a template for proteins.
‘Transcription’ and ‘translation’ are also processes applied to words.
God’s creative template is Logos (the Word).
Therefore DNA is God.
See it’s simple when you know how.
Using the same logic, I’ve been able to prove Jesus has returned as an airline pilot.
A plane is a carpenter’s tool.
The Boeing 747 is a plane.
Jesus was a carpenter.
Therefore Jesus flies Jumbo jets.
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I see the light. Thank you. Thank you.
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Whoops, Jim … you forgot to “praise God” that you’ve seen the light. For shame.
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Cabrogal, Reciting science to an atheist is like reciting Shakespeare to a chimpanzee. Both you and the chimpanzee haven’t a clue.
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He’s not an atheist
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Who gives a crap, Jim? Neither of you have a brain that is worth a damn.
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You should try essential oils.
If what you say is true, your god creates all the brains in the world for a purpose. Your problem is you have no faith—like you can control the outcome by boasting your insecurities. You’re boring me
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Brilliant!
You’ve disproved evolution!
I have science degrees, including in genetics, and I’m not an atheist. Therefore I’m not related to chimps! Or Hamlet!
You’re on a roll SoM.
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Careful. The Catholic church tried that. It didn’t end well.
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It hasn’t ended at all—just redefined. It’s amazing what you can find under a rug.
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Here is some evidence i discovered several years ago. https://jimoeba.wordpress.com/2018/10/03/bible-in-a-barrel/
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Nah, I’m part of the problem too.
“There is no God” is just as much a statement of faith as “There is a God”.
Embrace agnosticism jim. It may not be right but at least it’s not wrong. No donations, faith or hubris required.
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Curious why you feel Jim needs to provide evidence for which is simply an opinion piece, yet you won’t provide evidence for all the unaddressed claims Christianity makes.
Secondly, commenting on someone’s blog while referring to them in third person makes you look like a tool.
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Opinions based on evidence are credible. Opinions not based on evidence are worthless.
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You have a point. But no believer yet has produced evidence; that is, proof, validation, demonstration, or evidence of their claims.
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Nan, I have presented proof. But l like I have already said, you would not know proof if it slapped you upside the head. A person in your diminished intellectual state does not have the capacity to understand the reasoning involved in a proof.
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So it’s simply your opinion that you hold the proof. Got it
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Jim, A proof is not about opinion. A proof is about the facts.
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You have no proof. Even your demeanor is the antithesis of what the religion is supposed to do for you. More proof for me. Thanks.
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Jim, This is your post. You need to provide evidence for your claims. You trying to shift the burden of proof to me is conclusive evidence that you have no idea what you are talking about.
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I have proof prayer and authority in the name of Jesus are inadequate. I don’t actually have to provide jack shit. Nobody participates when I give the answers. It’s called a discussion and I have given you ample leeway, yet all you do is complain. You offer nothing.
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Oh I wouldn’t go that far, Jim. He offers really nice insults to people that get too close to the truth.
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Nan, Since you have read my proofs of God’s existence, please refute them.
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Nan, I vouch for that as well. 😉
I’m glad SoM has returned from the dead in our circles. 😆 He is an excellent demonstration of why Christianity ALWAYS fails!!! 😉
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Jim, You have said, “I have proof prayer and authority in the name of Jesus are inadequate.”
You saying that is not evidence or proof of anything.
Look, Jim, let me put this discussion out of its misery. You are uneducated and thus ignorant. You have never been taught how to make a logical argument.
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lol. Thanks. Yet you are the believer of nonsense here, not me. You are certainly not up to a practical challenge of the doctrine
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Jim, This is your blog where you express your own beliefs. I have asked you for evidence that supports your beliefs. You have provided none because you have none.
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I did. You just won’t test it for yourself. Faith is it’s own trap, as you have so eloquently displayed.
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Which education institution taught you the logic you applied in your post How Basic Biology Proves the Existence of God?
Please link to their website. I love a good laugh.
P.S. to monica: Like I said, the funniest jokes rely on stupidity and misfortune.
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Educational institutions brainwash, they don’t teach. However, one can learn how to think rationally from Aristotle and Plato. They are the go-to’s for anyone wishing to develop a mind that can think rationally.
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But to transcend rationality (or rather, the fetish of rationalism) you need Plotinus.
But maybe you should start with Socrates SoM.
Intellectual humility has its uses too. And you have much to be humble about.
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What is that?!
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Visit my blog. I’m not wasting my time here with people who can’t tell the difference between personal opinion and evidence.
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They’re respectful and you’re not- what is that for evidence of God?
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Arnold, Visit my blog if you want to see scientific proof that God exists. If you really want to know, then you will make the effort.
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Thank you Silence, I did visit your blog but it’s above and beyond my interest. To me, God wants relationship, not proof he exists. So he exists, now what about life’s tragedies etc?
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Arnold, Verily. You have a pure heart. Atheists always demand proof of God’s existence, so I provide it. My blog is actually a ministry with atheists in mind.
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Not pure, believe me. Anyway, I’m not convinced there’s a place for apologetics. I think Christ would have our attention on him.
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I don’t think Som realizes you are a believer. And a good one at that!
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Thanks Jim, but remember Jesus: “Why call me good? no one is good but God alone.” How about I’m a “simple” believer?
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That scripture is proof Jesus was not god. He even admits it.
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Not my take; I think he waxed rhetorical to prod the guy into mulling it over. Jesus held a lot back from even his disciples, knowing they couldn’t handle it until he gave them his Spirit. And even then, look at us now..
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Arnold, don’t bother wasting your time on his blog. It’s comical. But if you enjoy some good laughs, then indulge yourself. 😉 But don’t assume you’ll get ANY equitable discussions on any historical facts, especially those regarding Late Second Temple Judaism/Messianism. He and millions of other blind-faithers have NO CLUE who their supposed Savior/Messiah really was when it is readily available from Rabbinical Zugot period (170 BCE–30 CE) and Tannaim period (10—220 CE) literature of those times. The exact background and contemporary Judaism Yeshua bar Yosef (Greek Jesus) was born into, raised, and educated then wanted to redirect and reform. Yeshua never had ANY intention of an entirely new religion. That was done by the Hellenistic mystically-educated Saul of Tarsus and his TLE disease/ailment. Period. That’s factual Jewish history.
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Gotta agree with that.
Christianity was a tiny Jewish sect.
30+% of the people in the world follow Paulism.
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I’m fixed on Jesus Christ- anything I think or do is front and center to him.
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As you probably surmised already Arnold, with respect I would heavily and extensively disagree with your posture there. Why? Simple. Very insufficient INDEPENDENT evidence and corroboration from independent sources/evidence for your posture/stance.
Independent? IOW, any non-Greco-Roman (Greek) sources, e.g. specific Jewish Tannaim Rabbinical references or overwhelming Roman or Romanized contemporaneous authors/historians of 4 BCE to 90 CE. And worse still for your posture, the two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author (Josephus), and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers (Pliny the Younger & Suetonius) do not suffice by any means as “Independent” corroboration.
Furthermore, if I may Jim, there are at least 41 known, verified Pagan and Jewish authors/historians during Jesus’ lifetime or within less-than 100 years of his life where there is no mention of a Greek, Roman, or much less “Jesus Christ.” Nor within a century of Jesus’ life do any of these authors/historians make any mention of the later disciples or apostles. They are:
Best wishes Arnold.
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Sorry Jim, quick correction above please Sir.
I wrote: “…Greek, Roman, or much less “Jesus Christ.” That should’ve read:
“…Greek, Roman, or much less a Jewish “Jesus Christ or legitimate Messiah.”
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Externally, I agree- the Bible doesn’t stand a chance in court. Even the witnesses disagree! I think the authors were inspired as are you and I. Yet discrepancies happen.
Internally is where I dig into it- despite its difficulties, contradictions and errors, the message is stern and consistent: “Return to me, I am the way.”
I’m a fairly intelligent guy and probably moreso simple. I like that the Bible story is mostly understandable from childhood. Yet children should be taught appropriately.
And I know there’s bad, bad stuff behind a lot of scenes, and that God did and can step in. Sure, it puzzles me today when he doesn’t, but I give him the benefit of the puzzlement. I let go.
Hell, there’s always bad lurking at my doorstep: my driver impatience and perverse thoughts etc. In Christ though, I neglect most of it. Some breaks through, and I own it.
Most days I do stuff out in the community. Jesus rubbed shoulders with commoners and put his hands on children. I’m far from perfect, yet my intent is to be. And he gave me his Spirit so to work in that direction.
Thanks Prof! My faith is more a verb than a noun- I do simple stuff one step at a time. In the Spirit and sight of God.
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Well then Arnold, I think you and I could coexist peacefully, happily just fine… with an answer like that. I feel a degree of humility in your words and I have a TON of respect for anyone who exudes it while respecting OTHER world-views and faith-based belief systems. Mine personally is purely & simply: a Free-thinking Humanist. With much empirical data, evidence, coupled with a happy admission to HUMAN limits of full comprehension. But that does not necessarily lead to abandoning our/my intellect. I will never be a slave to intellectual suicide… which most often equates to BLIND faith. Not for me. 🙂
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Every one has my respect. I will NOT bulldoze down your belief, not bombard you with mine. I think Christ loved the person first, and listened, and helped those that asked. I’m learning.
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May I say, Arnold, that since revealing a bit more about yourself (rather than the short initial responses you gave on the blogs), your comments have become less antagonizing. Most of us were ourselves believers at one time or another so we’re more-than-familiar with all the “buzz words.” But it seems some think they’re the very first believer that has crossed our path … and they immediately go into “preach” mode.
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Thanks Nan, I’m learning to limit the buzzwords!
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Posts like Jim’s are sort of a classroom setting for me to learn how to rub shoulders with the everyday world. I appreciate you all- I hear your voices sometimes!
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I don’t think it’s incumbent upon Arnold to present independent verification of his subjective faith any more than you need to objectively prove the existence of your own consciousness.
He’s telling us what he believes without demanding we believe it too, so why not just accept that for what it is?
(BTW, most contemporary scholars accept the Testimonium Flavianum as at least partially authentic and that it did contain references to Jesus. They’re more skeptical as to whether Josephus ever referred to Jesus as the Messiah. Also the account of Jesus by Tacitus was written within 100 years of his life and is almost universally accepted as authentic.)
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Hi Cabrogal,
Yes, regarding the Testimonium Flavianum there are arguments for complete authenticity, partial authenticity, and equally so for complete forgery. These controversies are sufficient enough for me—and to most scholars as well—to DEMAND further independent corroboration from 4 BCE to 100 CE. There is none.
For anyone here not familiar with the comprehensive, exhaustive, full contextual history of this time-period, Wikipedia’s page is a good introductory article to begin with:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus
Regarding Tacitus writing about a “Jesus,” that work was finished ca. 116 CE. But I don’t wish to split hairs about the exact year. That descrepency is quite insubstantial to the content of what Tacitus wrote over 8-decades AFTER the execution of a failed rebel Messiah, Yeshua? Or a Greco-Roman version of a Rabbi-reformer?
Furthermore, if we were to suppose Tacitus’ written report of events he was NOT involved in 8-decades late, then who and where was he getting his information and facts from? Keep in mind too that practically all Jews following James & his Jerusalem Church were hunted down and executed, exterminated as insurrectionists to Rome by 70 CE after the utter destruction of the Temple & Jerusalem, and by 74 CE once Masada fell. Therefore, even Tacitus’ late, late writing of Annals—the original of which does not exist!—he writes about this ‘failed rebel-reformer’ according to surviving Gentile Christians (Greco-Romans), not from Jews like James the Brother. IMO, one must take these very short, very late written accounts (from Greek-Gentile Christians) with a lot of Kosher salt. 😉
Concluding this, there still isn’t sufficient independent evidence or extant sources to verify the claims made by the Synoptic Gospels starting with Mark thru Matthew, ca. 70 CE to 85-90 CE. Not when over 39-40 or 41 other contemporaneous historians/authors knew nothing about such insignificant events or so many failed Messiahs in 1st-century Jerusalem, Yeshua/Jesus included.
Thanks for the dialogue Cabrogal. Maybe we’ve helped others here get curious and do their OWN legwork & homework to see the same conclusions about the mythical Christology Saul of Tarsus started. 😉
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Speaking of this Saul/Paul player, arguably the 4 most important words ever spoken were, “I appeal unto Caesar.” Where would Christianity be today without Rome?
What I don’t understand is how Paul’s message is perceived different from Christ’s. His so-called mysticism perpetuated the gospel.
Jesus had told his disciples, ‘I’m not telling you everything now–you can’t take it all in.’ He’d maxed out with, “Eat my flesh and drink my blood.” So Paul took it to the next level with his, “Christ in you” teaching.
To me it’s common sense, bringing together dust and divinity. A continuation of, “You must be born from above.” Christ resolved creation’s purpose–relationship with God.
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I’m gonna assume the stories about Christ hanging with the Essenes were true and He was no stranger to mysticism. But to me none of that comes through in the books of His former disciples. They seem more concerned with attesting to miracles and hooking him into Jewish messiah mythology, even to the point where it seems comically messed up at times.
Paul, OTOH, seems to me to have a handle on the mystical experience when he talks about the Holy Spirit – especially in the two books of Corinthians. He’s also noticeably far more outward looking, using more cosmopolitan Greek/Roman tropes in his references and rhetoric. Unsurprising when you consider where his letters were addressed.
The other apostles wrote for the Jews. Paul wrote for the (known) world.
That’s my take at least.
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Yes, his disciples appear to be ignorant of a kingdom of heaven on earth. They really were bumblers–dozens of times they said or did the wrong thing. They were simple doers, not thinkers.
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All 3 synoptics relate Jesus’s, “Faithless generation, how long must I put up with you?” Seems a low point in his ministry.
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Every great religious leader needs straight men. Otherwise potential converts might think themselves unworthy.
The Buddha’s #1 disciple was Ananda. I think “you are mistaken Ananda” is the most frequently recurring phrase in the Suttas.
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Okay, where Christ’s ‘straight men’ are comic relief too. I suspect Christianity’s affliction is bringing God down to earth, not vice versa. “Set your affection on things above.”
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Cabrogal is very close with his comment, but it is also in the book of John. Jesus did not find his status peculiar to himself—it was a method that could be taught, but it is few that are able to experience it. The church then buried the mystical experience and elevated the messenger as “the only” son of god. A Hindu or Buddhist reading the New Testament spots it right away, but we are conditioned heavily not to see it. It is in the scriptures though.
If you have a minute Arnold, here is a little more from an earlier post https://jimoeba.wordpress.com/2020/04/22/what-really-was-the-good-news/
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Thanks Jim, I will. Cabrogal is great with the language of his thoughts. I learn a lot from you guys.
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Thanks Jim, I will. Cabrogal is outstanding with the language of his precise thoughts. Consoled Reader too. I learn a lot from you guys.
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I made a comment twice in response to a comment of Frederic’s in “What’s the Good News”; once with an embedded link, once without. Both times it immediately disappeared.
I’m assuming I offended Akismet and not some protector of divine mysteries for giving away a cosmic secret. Maybe you can dig the first one out of WordPress spam and delete the second. If you’re killed by lightning while trying it probably means I guessed wrong.
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I’ll look for them
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Maybe put on some rubber soled shoes first. Just in case.
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Found and approved. Not sure why it went to spam. I allow 2 links per comment
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I used “love” multiple times in just a few paragraphs. Akismet probably thought I was selling something.
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You saying you’re not selling something?
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Well, I never try to tell anyone life isn’t pain. How come that’s not good enough to fool a WordPress AI?
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And I love you too, SOM. ❤
BTW, I visited your site and the “proof” you so adamantly claim to have is nothing more than what you want it to be. Just like you claim Jim is doing, you are simply interpreting the several “tests” you present as “support” for what you inherently already believe.
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Nan, Thank you for visiting my blog. But you have just proven that you would not know a proof if it slapped you upside the head.
Had you a brain in your sweet little head, you would be able to refute the proof with evidence and a logical argument.
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THIS is proof???
The existence of God can be inferred from the information that is contained and processed within living organisms. Inferred?
And …
Therefore, Crick’s central dogma of molecular biology is a model of Logos (God speaking) in all living things.
This addresses the question of how non-living matter (elements such as carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, phosphorus) becomes living matter. An outside agent is necessary to cause non-living matter to become living.
That outside agent can only be God. Can ONLY be God???
You are making personal assumptions that TRUE science is not demonstrating.
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Nan, Yes, inferred. Inference is what scientists do. I recommend a freshman course in astronomy to learn the importance of inference in the scientific method.
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@Arnold You need my blog, and then I’ll show how The Holy Scriptures stand in court! https://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/about/
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I think Arnold has figured it out better than you sir. Maybe you should read his
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You speak for Arnold as well then?
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Arnold has taken his time to get to know us, unlike some. He’s welcome at the table anytime because he is just a decent person. Believer or not.
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Well I prefer to hear what he has to say.
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Thanks, yet Christ’s stance is enough for me. He didn’t go about to prove himself, ‘he went about doing good.’ My everyday religion in a nutshell is, ‘Christ in me.’ He’s my food and drink- my lifeblood.
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You only have to read Plato and Aristotle?! Imagine how much time all the grad students and philosophy majors could’ve saved?
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Yep, and Christianity hasn’t produced any evidence of its claims either. Anyway why do you care? Your God is presumably too big to be offended by dissenting opinions.
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Liberated, Christianity has spent the last 2000 years providing evidence for its claims. Where the hell have you been?
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That’s a man extremely biased and generalized opinion.
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Jim, The history of Christian Western Civilization is available to all.
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The history… ah the swords of the good ol days. Bartolo de las Casas had some interesting first hand entries about that. Brutal!
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Jim, Since you are an aficionado of history, how about providing actual evidence to support your post. Your personal opinions are not evidence for your personal opinions.
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I did supply evidence and offered you a chance to confirm it. But even you know those promises are silly.
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Jim, This is my last comment to you. You have not offered any evidence. All you have offered is personal opinion.
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If this a a ministry to atheism you are simply solidifying my position. All you have is personal opinion. I have present a couple of facts anyone can try. It’s very easy.
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Jim, A ministry offers truth. You aren’t interested in the truth. You are god of your own private universe. And as we all know, nobody argues with god.
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There are no deities I can find. It’s had plenty of time to present itself. I really believed for many years but it’s belief itself that is the barrier. The key to the mysteries is unbelief.
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You work for the Ministry of Truth?
That explains a lot.
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What is this so called evidence? I used to be Christian myself by the way, for over 20 years. I never saw any, just claims.
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Liberated, Christian Western Civilization has provided the world with modern science, modern ethics, human rights, justice, prosperity. No other civilization in human history did what the Christians have done.
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Christianity doesn’t get the credit. They oppose most scientific evidence
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Jim, Science and archeology are Christianity’s best friends. Atheism is a collection of primitive myths all of which you have swallowed, hook, line and sinker.
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Archeology? Like the non existent evidence for Moses?
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No, like the existence of Jesus. Archeology proves the existence of Israel which infers the existence of Moses.
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It’s rubbish to conclude the existence of Israel proves anything about Jesus or Moses. I thought you liked fact?
If your keen on archaeology do you accept other discoveries of science and anthropology? You seem to do a lot of cherry picking.
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Jim, That you find the facts and the truth to be rubbish is the root of all the nonsense you believe.
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Unless you accept the archeological evidence suggesting Israel and Judah were both founded primarily by refugees from the Canaanite cities which had collapsed over several centuries due to desertification of their hinterlands.
Of course you could choose to believe Exodus instead. But if you want to base that on archeology you’d have to explain how upwards of 1 million people could have wandered in circles in Sinai for 40 years without any evidence they were ever there – including textual evidence from the neighbouring civilisations who you’d think might have noticed, given the importance of trans-Sinai trade routes.
You’d have to explain how they destroyed the Egyptian vassal cities of Canaan – which also traded with Mesopotamia – in an unprecedented lightning campaign without the Egyptians or Mesopotamians seeing fit to record it.
You’d have to explain how the Egyptians and Hittites managed to fight the Battle of Kadesh – which they both documented extensively – without noticing escaped Egyptian slaves had set up a kingdom in Palestine; and why the Egyptians made detailed records of supplies purchased from cities Joshua had destroyed generations earlier.
You’d have to explain why the Israelites fled from Egypt only to settle in another area controlled by Egypt and why the Egyptians don’t seem to have noticed despite having lost an entire army in the Red Sea.
But I’m sure it’s all possible to explain. With faith.
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Add me to your group Liberated. And I spent 12-yrs in Xian ministry & missions, as well as 3+ years in seminary learning earliest Church history and basic Koine Greek. However, the latter WILL NOT help you in truly understanding who Yeshua bar Yosef really in truly was without Mishnaic Hebrew and Syro-Aramaic, the only two languages he spoke to public crowds and in the Synagogues. Period. No debate.
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Not that those languages would help. Nothing he said was ever recorded in them. We don’t even know for sure the (originally) Koine Greek texts attributed to the apostles had anything to do with them. And anyway, they disagree.
I think it’s reasonable on the evidence to conclude a religious leader we call Jesus lived in Roman occupied Judea around 2000 years ago. I wouldn’t go any further than that.
If you’re reading the Bible as history (or science) you’re looking in the wrong book.
If you’re reading it for existential meaning it doesn’t matter what language it’s in.
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Well stated Cabrogal.
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Or not.
“For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God” – Exodus 34:14
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LOL nice one. Yeah God is a jealous asshole.
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“That sentence stands alone with so supporting evidence at all.”~SOM
Hmm. It appears that sentence stands alone with no supporting evidence at all. 🙂
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Ron, You just did the same thing you accused me of. Be specific. Give just one example where I did not back up a claim with facts.
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I’m glad Ron and you have found each other SoM.
This will be like watching Kilkenny cats.
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I just did. Here’s another:
“The greatest civilization in human history is Christian Western Civilization. Western Civilization is proof Christianity’s greatness as a religion and its benefit to mankind.”
These are mere assertions — not evidence-based facts.
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It is most likely that we are still in a post apocalyptic era. Considering the ancient lost technologies and the civilizations and structures the ancients were able to build, we are still in a rebuilding phase.
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Perhaps. But I submit that there are many ways of defining greatness and I’m not convinced that technological improvements are the ultimate measure of judging our success.
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The longer I have been outside of religion, the more I think we are much better off without it. especially Christianity.
Recently I caught up with a friend who used to be a fundie. I remember him being upset and trying to debate me when I told him I left. Now, two years later, he is an entirely different person, for the better. The influence indoctrination has on people…
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Liberated, You wrote the following: “The longer I have been outside of religion, the more I think we are much better off without it. especially Christianity.”
So what? Billions of others find immense benefit in the Christian religion. It’s your word against Christian Western Civilization.
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Billions of people are adherents of Christianity, and many will claim to be benefited from it, but what benefits do they actually receive? Billions are also part of Islam too, by the way.
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Billion can’t be wrong can they? Especially when that’s the only real choices left thanks to your favored Christ-Islamic swordsmanship.
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Jim, Billions can be wrong. And so can you. That is my point.
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So take the test. What have you got to lose? Command something really important
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Jim, You have no evidence to support your post. Therefore you have proven that your post is nonsense.
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You have actually given it all the credibility in the world. Thank you.
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Jim, You must be desperate if you need me to give your post credibility.
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Not at all. It’s been just fine without you. I see you’ve mastered argumentum ad nauseum.
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Jim, You just contradicted yourself, AGAIN. People who contradict themselves don’t know what they are talking about.
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Takes one to know one.
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Nan, What a pathetic comment. Grow up, please.
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SOM, you have accused each person that has responded to you as spouting nonsense and claim YOUR knowledge is superior. It’s VERY similar to what children do when they sing-song, “I’m smarter than you are. Nyah-Nyah. The very fact that you continually insist that YOU have all the “proof” and everyone else is deaf, dumb, and blind is nothing more than schoolyard gibber-gabber.
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Nan, The facts are not my facts. The facts are the facts and they speak for themselves. Jim has not provided any evidence to support his post. It is not my fault if Jim cannot explain himself.
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The evidence clearly shows our nearest relative is the chimpanzee and we share most of their traits today. You’re all about science, but I find it weird that god would take 2.5billion years of evolution to get his Adam. But the reality is evolution and emergence need mo such guidance.
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Jim, Our nearest relative is not the chimp. Sober up and get back to me.
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I thought you were all about facts? https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent/human-origins/understanding-our-past/dna-comparing-humans-and-chimps
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Jim, There are other primates that are more closely related to H o m o Sapiens then the chimp. The article you cited in only a comparison between chimp and man. It does not state that the chimp is the primate most closely related to man.
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There you go, arguing without presenting anything of value. Prove me wrong and I’m fine with that. 98.8% is a pretty good match. If you can do better (aliens maybe) I’m all ears.
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Jim, You began by claiming Christianity fails. Now you are talking about chimpanzees. Sober up and get back to me.
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You’re a liar. You said you care about facts. This is like 20 comments later than when you said you were done. You must hate to be wrong but all your blathering isn’t changing that. You’ve offered nothing but blanket criticism with no solution.
Apologetics 101:17
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Here is another proof christianity today is bs. “Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it”.
2.4 billion is hardly few. Time for a reset
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Jim, What is worse, an atheist quoting holy scripture or a chimpanzee typing out Shakespeare on a computer keyboard?
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How else are you supposed to see the fallacy you embrace? Here you are again, instead of offering a better argument you insult. Likely because you have no argument. That much is obvious.
Some ministry you have there. Spewing insults for Jesus.
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There’s no disagreeing with that.
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That’s a non-sequitur. Having someone really stupid disagree with you doesn’t make you right.
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Liberated, Christian Western Civilization brought modern science into existence and with it modern technology. Additionally, Christian Western Civilization is the most prosperous and most just civilization in human history. How are those for the benefits of Christianity?
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You have resisted every social advance. How’s that for the benefits of Christianity?
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Jim, All I have done is ask you for evidence to support your post. You have proven your post is nonsense by not providing any evidence to support it.
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I’d say that’s a bit of a stretch attributing modern science to Christianity. Many scientists weren’t Christian, also Islam contributed a lot to science before it became more regressive.
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Liberated, Attributing modern science to Christianity is logical because nowhere else in all of human history did modern science arise. The foundation for modern science was laid down during the Christian Middle Ages. The Catholic Church steered alchemists away from witch craft and turning lead into gold. Modern science was the result. See, “The Genesis of Science” by James Hannam.
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It’s actually just like today. Science progresses in spite of Christianity. Your religion has opposed scientists as heretics. Even today they oppose any truth that contradicts the biblical beliefs.
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Actually science has not progressed much since God was thrown out of the classroom. I was born in the mid 1950’s and the only fundamental change between now and then is computing and social media. Big whoop. Before God was eliminated from out society, American culture did a complete make over every 30 years or so. We haven’t had fundamental change since the 1930’s. We are still driving internal combustion vehicles. We still live in the same style housing. We still use the same type plumbing. We still drive on roads, etc., etc.
Man cannot think properly without God in mind. Our society is collapsing because God is out of sight out of mind.
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Was He chewing gum?
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All those poor ignorant scholars who attribute the invention of Western science to befuddled old Greeks like Thales, Anaximander, Pythagoras, Archimedes, Euclid, Galen, Hippocrates, …
Some of them even see the rise of Christianity as an epistemological disaster that plunged Europe into Dark Ages that would set science back by many centuries, perhaps losing it forever were it not for Muslim scientists like Abu Nasr Al-Farabi, Al-Battani and Ibn Sina (Avicenna).
It’s a good thing we’ve got truly intelligent people like SoM to sort all those stupid scholars and bumbling ancient scientists out.
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Generally scholars, particularly Medievalists, reject the idea that Christianity caused the Dark Ages or that the Dark Ages is even a good description of the Middle Ages to begin with.
The Middle Ages saw the creation of the university and an entirely new system for disseminating knowledge and Ancient Greek learning across the European continent. Most historians of science and medievalists recognize that the Catholic Church was the greatest sponsor of intellectuals in this period rather than some force of suppression. It witnessed progress in sciences such as the use of the camera obscura to view solar eclipses by William of Saint-Cloud, Dietrich von Freiberg’s identifying that multiple rainbows are caused by reflections inside a raindrop, medieval mathematicians at Oxford developing mathematical methods to model motion, Jean Buridan’s development of impetus theory that was a precursor to both Galileo and Newton, anatomical dissections, and Nicole Oresme’s defense of the possibility of the earth’s rotation. Likewise, intellectual debate happened all the time and could be quite ruthless and cutthroat.
For further info that touches on points I didn’t make See Dr Eleanor Janega’s excellent post that deals with this issue:
https://going-medieval.com/2019/11/05/jfc-calm-down-about-the-medieval-church/
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CR, sorry sir, do you have a second to address this guy in the thread? https://jimoeba.wordpress.com/2022/02/22/why-christianity-fails/comment-page-1/#comment-44366
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You want me to address the anti-Semitic, racist Islamaphobe conspiracy theorist who thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a servant of Satan? No thanks!
You’re not going to accomplish anything with someone like that.
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Hahaha. I’ll take that as a definite no then? Thinking about moderating someday— might add some years to my life.
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I don’t think Christianity per se caused the Dark Ages. What I’d suggest is that by adopting it as a state religion Rome spread Christianity and – specifically – its idea that one particular book was the repository of divine wisdom across Europe.
When Western Rome collapsed – with a corresponding Europe-wide loss of prosperity, social cohesion and education (including most Classical Greek thought, which was preserved and later reintroduced to Europe largely by Islamic thinkers) – the populace began looking nostalgically backwards to a Golden Age. They developed the idea that prosperity and progress was to be mined from the past rather than developed for the future. That led to scholasticism, which demanded that all forms of thought must comply with the teachings of the Bible (as interpreted by Catholic theological dogma). So the intellectuals and institutions ‘sponsored’ (or monopolised) by the church in this time became a as much a brake on intellectual flourishing as supporters of it.
There was some social, technological and philosophical progress in Europe under scholasticism, but far more slowly and narrowly than before its advent or after it was swept away by Enlightenment thinkers. One of the starkest and best known examples was how long it took heliocentrism to become widely accepted despite all the evidence astronomers (even before Galileo) had adduced for it. Another was the persistent refusal to accept evidence of an ancient Earth and evolution.
So perhaps ‘Dark Ages’ was a bit of a misnomer. They weren’t intellectually dark. Just very dim. And both the centralised power of the Church and the Christian doctrine of Biblical infallibility were major causes of that (along with the potentially lethal anti-intellectual reflex that anything contradicting official Christian doctrine wasn’t merely wrong, but Satanic).
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BTW, thanks for the ref to Eleanor Janega’s blog.
What a great writer!
I’ve been reading it compulsively for hours.
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Of course. Prosperity gospel proves Christianity. Money is holy.
Ka-ching! Ka-ching! Ka-ching! Amen.
Careful you don’t get stuck in the eye of a needle SoM.
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I am not preaching. I am simply stating the facts.
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Someone, and I’m not mentioning names, appears to be speaking for “Christian Western Civilization.” As if that means something.
Ever seen a crackpot? There ya go.
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Digger, You live in and benefit from Western Civilization. Try getting out of your mommy’s basement and go see the world. Western Civilization is so great that 2,000,000 3rd World illegal aliens crossed over into the United States last year. The United States is the crown jewel of Christian Western Civilization and every illegal alien’s first choice.
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Those immigrants are lucky to have lived through Christian dominance. If the USA were truly Christian it would be a monarchy ruled by pious dictators. That’s how it’s always been when your religion had all the power.
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SoM, you crack me up.
Of course you couldn’t be more right. Those illegal aliens who washed up on Plymouth Rock really started the rot in North America. A Great Replacement of sensitive, spiritual people living in harmony with their environment in egalitarian, democratic groups with a bunch of genocidal, foreign fanatics dogmatically bound to the 1600 year old dead words of a primitive, warlike middle eastern tribe. It’s all been downhill ever since.
If only strict immigration policies had been in place …
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Thank you for clarifying my position.
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That’s pretty good evidence. I found when I left I could really love people without an agenda.
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Jim, Someone’s opinion is not evidence. Billions of Christians express the opposite opinion. Which opinions are true? Thus the need for actual evidence.
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Yes they have opinions without evidence. My evidence clearly shows prayer and signs are a joke. Test it out for yourself. It’s 100% duplicable for anyone. I’m not claiming any secret knowledge or priesthood. Just try it out. It’s super easy and obvious for the best and worst of believers the outcome is the same.
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Jim, Your comment is just more personal opinion, nothing more.
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That’s your opinion
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No, Jim, I have asked you for evidence to back up your personal opinions. You have provided none. That fact speaks for itself.
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You’re being ridiculous. I’m supposed to trust your beliefs over my own experience? I’m 100% consistent and trust my own methods completely. You trust someone else’s. You’ve given away your ability to think. If you have a suggestion I’ll try it out, but I expect the same courtesy.
You might do yourself a favor and change out some of that hot air. Your beliefs are making you angry and crazy.
My experience is quite valuable. When you stop to test the words everything changes. But that’s all Christianity is—words without practical application. Talking shops with failed promises. But it sure feels good when you play the charade with others.
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Not having a hidden agenda all the time is certainly refreshing. It’s ironic that a religion supposedly bent on truth actually encourages people to be inauthentic. MLMs and Christianity have a lot in common.
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I remember your struggle to break away and still maintain friendships and protect the feelings of others. It’s a pretty frustrating situation.
One of the most profound changes for me was I became a-political and was ashamed of the crap I used to spew about alternative lifestyles. I found without the Christian influence I really didn’t care about any of that. It was all brainwashing. It wasn’t the real me at all.
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It can be hard leaving without a support network. For many, all their friends and family are Christian. Once you have some sort of support network it is easier to be more open with others. Yeah a lot of brainwashing within Christianity.
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Jim, nice troll there. I’ve seen it around before on other blogs. I think it’s hilarious that it demands proof of our lack of belief. While simultaneously, completely stymied, by having no evidence of its own, other than unfounded assertions. What a freaking joke…
I make it a general rule never to engage the cranks, kooks, and crazies. At least not for long. A post, maybe two, then off to better things. Trust me, there are way better things lol. I mean clipping your nails is better things. Cleaning the cat box is better things and just as smelly. Anything constructive, even if mundane, is time better spent. Trolls are impervious to reason, unfazed by facts, blinded by belief, and stubborn as a mule. Though occaisionally good for a laugh, it’s just not worth it, not for me anyway. 🙂
I know we all have our roads to travel… Carry on 🙂
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I haven’t seen him around for quite a while. What’s funny to me is for thousands of years men have been asking the same questions, and all the sudden he has all the proof. But if you look at the evidence it always takes a leap to conclude god did it.
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Yeah, I know 🙂 Seen it a thousand times, and one. This particular troll is quite persistant, and quite predictable.
Psst, be careful Jim, I’m a psychopath 😉
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He was referring to me in third person. Does that make him a Bob Dolemite?
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Well, as per a new definition I’ve recently heard of, he might be a… PSYCHOPATH!
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I’m not sure he’s dolomite, but I think you could improve your garden by spreading his output over it.
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The secret’s not in the leap. It’s in landing on your head.
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digger, Only a psychopath calls other people “it.” And this is Jim’s blog, not mine. He is the one who needs to provide evidence for his claims.
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Hey, did you hear something? I thought I heard something. Probably nothing important…
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Jim puts a lot of effort into his posts. He touches all the hot buttons. And many of us put a lot of effort into our comments. Trolls like you and Nan do Jim a great disservice.
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There it was again! I swear I thought I heard something. Must be nothing…
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Nothing of substance is still something. How is your winter? We’ve been freezing our asses off this past week.
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Lot’s of rain of late. Lots of cold for the region. Small ice storm out there right now, not enough to get excited over, at least for the time being.
Nothing of substance is barely something lol. Certainly not worthy of serious consideration. Unless it’s radiation or hand grenades.
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Online trolls are most similar to the playground bullies you would have encountered at school. These people deliberately provoke arguments and fights on social media and forums, often by saying the most grossly insensitive and offensive things.
I rest my case.
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That seems a near universal attribute of trolls, whether religious or nominally secular. Their fallback argument is always to reject whatever evidence you offer then demand evidence again, even when it’s them making the 0utrageous evidence-free claims.
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I wrote this a day or two back on another blog I frequent. There was a troll there too, and I had already hooked one here 😉
“Cranks, kooks, and crazies.
They all think they are special. They all have some agenda they hang their hats on. They all think they are freaking geniuses. They all play dodge/attack/insult when engaged.”
Repeat ad nauseum.
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Well, I gotta admit I indulge in a bit of trolling from time to time myself. You may have seen some on this blog.
My favourite recent example of the Zen of Trolling came not long after the last US elections when the Trumpists were starting to rock up outside government offices – some openly carrying assault weapons – holding signs saying ‘Stop the Steal’.
Being 2021 it wasn’t long before ‘Stop the Steal’ Facebook groups had popped up all over. This is how it played out.
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That sort of trolling I’m all for!
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Understanding The Crucial Importance of Baptism Including What Baptism Is Not!:
https://isthefathercallingyoutohisson.wordpress.com/understanding-the-crucial-importance-of-baptism-including-what-baptism-is-not/
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May your eyes of understanding be opened. Christianity is working just fine for me.
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Everything works fine when when you lower the bar far enough to achieve irrelevance.
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By that logic, how can you know that Atheism isn’t lowering the bar to the point of irrelevance?
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Is atheism making claims that have been ratcheted down to irrelevant excuses and apologetics? The reality of atheism is real faith—total trust in letting go, and realizing no one is coming to save us. Everything here is our responsibility and there’s no way out from that.
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We are all free to believe what we want, but if you would like my truly honest opinion, atheism is ignorance and from what I have read of your post and comments, your brand seems to be a somewhat pessimistic one. I’m not trying to be offensive or judge you too harshly, that’s just what I’m seeing. Christianity, while I am disappointed to say has been used as an excuse for terrible things in the past, is religion which I believe contributes very positively to humanity. If You feel lit lacks proof I could say the same for atheism. In fact, I feel that there is more proof of a God than there is for the “the universe is an accident” theory. I would encourage you to look more deeply into yourself and scripture, and please, at least be respectful of others in your posts; we are all entitled to our opinions but we should never endeavor to slander other peoples beliefs.
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I’m sure if you read most of my posts you’d find I give tremendous leeway for belief and have all types of spiritualist commentary. This was a harsh as it gets.
I have a question for you. Since god created something out of nothing, why is there still nothing? There is form, but what physicist find at the root of all matter is nothing. The definition a particle is now “an excitation of a field”. There is no dirt or matter of fact building block of the universe. It is an illusion. Seems god is more Hindu or Buddhist than Christian or Hebrew. As the Hindus have known this about matter for over 2500 years.
Atheism doesn’t demand proof. Sorry. Your side makes claims that are easily refuted. Now even creation is suspect. If there is a god there is nothing that is not it and your entire existence is illusory—it ain’t what it seems to be. But maybe you’re not ready for that.
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I’ll have to look at some of your other posts, but regardless, I think people should always strive to be respectful even when they disagree. I’m not a physicist nor a Hindu or a Bhuddist, so I can’t really say if what you are saying is accurate but if it is it doesn’t disprove the existence of God; if God created something out of nothing it doesn’t mean He had to create a building block, if the excitation of a field is what He wants an atom to be than that is what an atom is. If Atheism doesn’t demand proof than how can you defend your stance, and furthermore why are we then even having this discussion? As for the claims we make, they’re no different than Atheism’s claims in their refutability. You can say that the Big Bang created the universe and I can say, “Okay, well then that’s how God wanted to create the universe.” Not really sure what you mean about everything being God; I know that some Asian religions have that sort of idea, but I don’t know why you would think that or how one might come to that conclusion. I’m not here to argue man, I just want you to think about it. It really all comes back to Pascals Wager. If God is real and you choose to believe in Him, repent of your sins, and accept Jesus as your savior, then you eventually go to heaven and spend eternity in happiness. If God isn’t real but you still believe all of that, you’ll die and nothing will happen, you will never feel the disappointment of being wrong. If you don’t believe God exists and he doesn’t then you die but never get to know if you were right. If God is real but you don’t believe in Him, you go to hell and spend eternity in agony. So, a Christian has nothing to loose and everything to gain, an Atheist has nothing to gain everything to lose. Please, just think about it. I pray that you find Jesus. All the best.
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Who would atheists/non-believers be concerned about knowing whether they were “right or wrong” at the time of their death? Christians are the only ones who have these concerns because they are taught that there are two possible “endings.”
The simple fact is when a person does not carry the weight of god-belief, they simply don’t concern themselves with such matters. Death is the end of life. Period.
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On whose authority is there a hell?
You assume as though I have never been a believer, but 50 years of my life devoted to something that never came to fruition nor graduated a single soul from its doctrine—is a manipulation.
Having the correct beliefs is paramount to guessing what your insecurities dictate the safest option in a scheme concocted to cause the anxiety and then purports to fix it.
I don’t have any sins. There is nothing happening here that isn’t happening to itself. Good and evil are simply ways man divides the world up into classes, just like everyone and everything else. It is one event. Good cannot exist without evil. Everything is in the normal course of nature. No one knows the dividing lines of good and evil, for they are completely arbitrary. Good intentions can cause just as much pain as bad, and bad ones can cause the most good. There are too many variables to delineate one from the other.
”I’m not a physicist nor a Hindu or a Bhuddist, so I can’t really say”. Exactly!
The philosophies of each of those disciplines surpass Christianity and carry no contradictions to seesaw the mental wrangling of monotheism and its apologetics—which is required of every single iota of doctrine—none of it stands against what we actually see the existence of reality. If there is a god it’s not a He, or a man, or a thing. Every major tradition surpasses Christian theology in its completeness. They require no belief, because belief itself is the problem. It is what Christianity demands because it has no evidence, offers nothing but dangling carrots and never fulfills a single premise. It’s happiness relies on promises.
With the word god there is nothing to which it refers, so each person designs an imagery reflected from themselves. This is the nature of god. This is you, or in your case, someone else’s beliefs you’ve adopted by using your freewill to abandon your freewill.
I would truly like to know what you think…So far all I’ve heard it the ideas passed on by others. What are your feelings you’ll never know because of belief.
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Like I said, not here to argue. You are contradicting yourself, if you claim you have no sins but then claim that there is at least such a thing as good an evil, however blurrily you say they are divided, then you must be a perfect person. I am saddened to hear that you were once a Christian. I don’t know what happened to you to make you an atheist, but I hope you come back. I would appreciate if you could elaborate on what you mean by “I would truly like to know what you think.” I’m not quite sure what is is you want to know.
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Please don’t feel sorry for me…think of it more as a graduation.
I would like to know what you think, mainly because I see a pattern in belief—when the person no longer believes they finally have their own thoughts, many times for the first time in their lives…they actually become human. They stop supporting divisive behaviors and causes. They stop judging others and befriending them to convert them. They become genuine. They have true faith —total trust in letting go. Something the Christian fails at because his religion keeps him anxious. You act as though there is some type of urgency to adopt the correct thoughts and ideas, but belief is so flimsy it must be protected by laws—it cannot stand on its own merit or its evidence. It is a collection of ideas you like. They are actually nothing at all. But since it is all you know (admittedly) it must be true?
There are some fascinating ways of seeing the world and yours is the baby step—it is the beginning of the journey but believers act as though they arrived. But really christianity resists the truth and resist knowing. Even from the beginning.
I did not say there is good and evil. I said it is the human way of dividing the world up into classes that don’t exist. It’s all one event.
Can you show me where one event begins and ends? What event led up to world war 2? World war 1? The civil war or the fall of Rome? We separate them with dates and times that are man made inventions to help us understand them, but they in fact have no dividing line. It is continuous.
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Well I found this comment the most interesting so far, mainly because you and I actually have something we agree on. You said “when the person no longer believes they finally have their own thoughts, many times for the first time in their lives…they actually become human. They stop supporting divisive behaviors and causes. They stop judging others and befriending them to convert them. They become genuine.” This is mostly true (I believe we still have our own thoughts even in our beliefs). But you are right we become fully human, not that we are not fully human when we are Christian, just that we fully embrace it, and that is a bad thing. The reason we have so much hate, hurt, and pain in this life is because we are human, and while we are still beautiful, created in the image of God, the moment we let go of the moral code that comes with Christianity we really just fall apart. The thing we term as “freedom” really just enslaves us. We get caught up in the things of this world until we are addicted to them. Does Christianity sometimes make me anxious? No, I make myself anxious about Christianity. It’s not the religion it is my aforementioned human aspects. You can say Christianity resists knowledge, and while I agree that is sometimes does, that is the point of faith. The only reason we have sin is because the original humans wanted knowledge. Faith dictates that I don’t have to know everything I can trust that God will work everything out in the end. Maybe that’s a concept that you cannot understand from an atheist point of view, but that is how I see faith. Christianity totally embraces truth as that is what Jesus is, it just does not embrace what you think is the truth. As for evil and good, I’m afraid that I just think your views are wrong; there is good and there is evil, it might be hard to distinguish the two sometimes, but they are separate things. Maybe I hold views that a lot of other people hold. Maybe they aren’t what you would call “original” views. Again, I could say the same for atheism; if your vies were original then you’d be the only atheist in existence. I’ve said my bit Jim, and you most likely wont hear from me again. I’ll pray for you and hope that you can work out whatever’s happening inside you. The rest is up to you to search and seek, and turn to Jesus. I hope you really give our discussion some deep thought. All the best.
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“ The reason we have so much hate, hurt, and pain in this life is because we are human”. Not particularly. It is because of beliefs. Humans without beliefs are super mellow.
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I hope you really give our discussion some deep thought. Translation: “I really hope you will consider accepting Jesus into your heart.”
🙏😆
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“the moment we let go of the moral code that comes with Christianity we really just fall apart.” ~Alexander Phaethon
Just out of curiosity, what is the moral code that comes with Christianity, and what sets it apart from the moral codes followed by of non-Christians? Is it your belief that one cannot be moral person outside of the Christian faith?
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