Satan, the serpent, that old devil nemesis to God and his plan is causing discord as usual. But who is Satan really, and why cover it up?
In the Old Testament Satan and God are the same being. Satan in the Old Testament is the face that god puts on when he is trying his people. “The anger of the Lord” IS Satan. There are sufficient dually written scriptures to illustrate this, such as 1Chronicles 21:1 and 2nd Samuel 24:1. Job 1:8-12 and Job 1:11 along with 42:11 are also a good resource.
1Chronicles 21:1 Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel. So David said to Joab and the commanders of the troops, “Go and count the Israelites from Beersheba to Dan. Then report back to me so that I may know how many there are.”
2Samuel 24:1 Again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go and take a census of Israel and Judah.” 2 So the king said to Joab and the army commanders a with him, “Go throughout the tribes of Israel from Dan to Beersheba and enroll the fighting men, so that I may know how many there are.”
The anger of the LORD and Satan are the same thing—they’re interchangeable. The devilish side of god is also obvious in the Book of Job.
So we have Jesus on the right hand and yet the Bible never mentions gods left hand. Surely if god has a right he has a left, yet it never says. Whose face are they trying to save? Christianity’s “all good” and totally righteous god is a misnomer—for Yang with no Yin is attemptable—but impossible. Hiding your bad side is handy sometimes for social health, but to deny it’s existence? “The goody-goodies are the thieves of virtue.“—Confucius. In the case of religious piety it is the disguise of virtue that has hypocrisy so prominent it dwells on high in the heavens, and is easily used against the gullible and simple minded.
The New Testament does a better job at hiding this, making it more kind than the old, but remember the old serpent slipped out of Jesus mouth too— “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. I guess every knee will bow or else! So much for freewill.
TheCommonAtheist 
Atheism = ASatanism. Where one does not exist, neither dies the other!
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Good point. It seems very little of what they believe has much in common with what is. No one can really define where good ends and evil begins. And pleasantry leads to discomfort just as easily as it is in reverse.
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While I dislike the term good in that connotation, and I absolutely hate the term “evil” in any connotation because “evil” implies a relationship to the “goodliness” of a god, I try to talk about help and harm, But even those terms can be misconstrued, as you say above. It is a razor’s edge that separates rhem. Still, I try to live my life to do no intentional harm, though nature requires harm be done in order to survive. Life lives on life, as I am wont to say. Oppositely I will try to do intentional help, if the helpee is willing to accept it, or not in a position to refuse it and needs it to continue to live. That is as close as I can come to distinguishing between positive and negative actions and decisions not to act. It might sound complex and convoluted, but once you get it down pat it is simple and straightforward, I think.
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I used to play Go against a committed gothic Satanist. Not Anton LaVey’s neo-Pagan/atheist hotch-potch you get with the Church of Satanism; more Ted Bundy set to Belphegor.
He tried to convert me once and was most put off when I told him I’ve never been Christian enough to be a Satanist.
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“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” – Isaiah 45:7
I think it’s pretty clear Judaism wasn’t originally a dualistic monotheism.
Yahweh was the God of Abraham and the Israelites but there was originally plenty of competition on the block. And He wasn’t about to cede half His business to a Nemesis. The Israelites picked up the monotheism notion from Zoroastrians during the Babylonian exile but it’s less clear to me where the idea of an all-loving fully benevolent deity (who still reserves the right to destroy His Creation and condemn His children to eternal damnation) came into it. Probably a Christian sales pitch to lure Romans away from their far more interesting gods. They never did sort out the theological difficulties that innovation begat.
“Don’t you know there ain’t no Devil, there’s just God when he’s drunk.” – Tom Waits
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The whole scenario reminds me of the conversations we have in our heads while making a decision. Which one will win typically has the backing of evolution.
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Do you really do that?
I thought that just happened to cartoon characters with little angels and devils sitting on their shoulders. Shit, I’m a voice hearer and it doesn’t happen to me.
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Today we make a list of pros and cons, then like Alan Watts says, we make a snap judgement anyway.
Come to think of it though, I don’t really contemplate that way since my deconversion.
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Re “I guess every knee will bow or else! So much for freewill.” Also so much for democracy. In the Bible, clearly it was Yahweh or the highway. Jesus’s disciples were promised kingships in the “nations” that is surrounding countries, and it was assumed that above them on the org chart was always Yahweh. Apparently the primary lesson was “Love me . . . or else!”
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Well, it’s not like JC was shy about it.
“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” – Luke 19:27
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But you only get credit if you love voluntarily. To obey out of fear will get you nothing.
It’s funny that Christians think the universe is a monarchy but simultaneously think a republic is the best form of government. Hypocrisies 7:41
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All good points. One thing that stood out to me (and kind of cracks me up!) are the lines regarding “Go and count the Israelites from Beersheba to Dan. Then report back to me so that I may know how many there are.”
Uh…..didn’t he know?
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Haha. Good catch Zoe! I’m giving you a billion points! Also, why was Israel forbidden to take a census? How silly is that?
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Ha ha! Another good point!
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Because people aren’t mathematical entities.
That way lies mathematical realism. And utilitarianism. Ugh!
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This is a good question, and one we should pose to those who support classical theism’s claim of omni god. Did he not know? If he did know, why did he want the count done?
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god shows its ignorance quite a few times. Like, why did it need blood smeared around so it could figure out who its followers were? Oh and why did it need the Israelites to cover up their poo in camp since it was walking around there? Wouldn’t it know where not to step?
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If there is No God, I wonder why so much time is spent writing about Him by so many people worldwide–both worldwide and over the millennium. It’s like an obsession. Does God exist or not? Hmmm. Let us ponder and expend our mental energy endlessly trying to figure it out instead of doing something “useful”…(Yes, yes, GOD/HIM/SHE/IT/THEY…) If we believe in Science then we believe in evolution…case closed.
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People tend to ‘talk more’ about the existence/non-existence of a god when and where people are doing things supposedly in it’s name… like enacting regressive anti-abortion laws, for example. Go to any country with a strong rational backbone and a strong aversion to silliness, Australia for example, and you’ll hardly hear a peep about it.
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Except from politicians and marketers trying to piggy-back on imported US cultural memes.
A certain PM comes to mind.
Oh yeah, and from liberal humanists accusing anyone who doesn’t agree with their talking points of being brainwashed by an imaginary sky fairy.
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Yeah, the guy from marketing is straying into uncomfortable ground.
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I reckon it’s getting uncomfortable for him now too, what with his church of choice collapsing into all the usual sordid scandals just months out from an election. I suspect he’ll be keeping God off the campaign trail this time, just like lots of Liberal candidates are trying to pretend they’re nothing to do with Scottie or the Liberal Party.
When gods die they tend to get on the nose.
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so, how does this work with the bits where “satan” uses Judas to betray jesus (no betrayal, no salvation), where this god forces humans to work with Satan (Revelation 17) and this god must free Satan to corrupt the christians after this god kills everyone else (Revelation 19-21)?
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It works because it isn’t real? I am not that good at guessing.
Lately I’ve been one on one with an apologist on the side. Every contradiction is followed up with paragraphs of mental wrangling. That is how one keeps believing. Proving again and again they are not crazy by proving they are. And when it fails—personal testimony that god put the contradictions in the Bible to test believers and unbelievers alike. If it was obvious it couldn’t be god, now could it?
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“ersonal testimony that god put the contradictions in the Bible to test believers and unbelievers alike.”
ah, the ol “omnipotent and omniscient being somehow has to test people” nonsense that always gives me giggles.
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What good are your gadgets if you can’t test them. I’ve never thought to sr my kids up that way. I guess I’m not very godly, thank god.
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I am truly thankful for your posts and the various responses. It just so happens that I’ve been reading Job again. So disappointed to see my father take a bet from our family’s worst enemy at the expense of my brother’s kid’s lives and Job health’s and sanity. Most disheartening and faith* challenging. Therefore good? And what you said about Christian work-around is so true. Logic is a keen tool. However, I do think something is true, even if it is not what is generally considered a “fixed” point. I still feel like I’m panning for spiritual gold, albeit from a “Christian” perspective. But not all the sand in my pan is Judeo-Christian Let me ask you, anyone on here, this: Are you “saved”? That is, Are you satisfied with your truth or whatever you would call your philosophy? How or when did you “arrive” there? What gives you the peace of mind which enables you to carry on? (This is not a ploy to introduce you to Jesus. I am not a robot-I checked the traffic lights)
*for me faith is the guiding principle of my life. It needs to satisfy both my inner and outer realities… errr ah hum…experience😉.
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Thanks Frederic. I might just do this comment as a fresh post if you don’t mind?
“ for me faith is the guiding principle of my life.” In my opinion this is your choice (your moral autonomy) and that doesn’t change. In one you give it away to authority, in the other you maintain that for your own keeping, which is the most moral option.
I know you contemplate different traditions and glean from each what you may, and many of these are not Christian. Seems to me you have a good mindset on how this ‘should’ work. It’s collaboration that makes humanity powerful. It’s too bad the Hebrew religions all say my way or else, because frankly (as you’ve noticed) the other traditions have some equally—if not better ways to find peace of mind.
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