Feminism has helped women revert to their natural, primate roles.
Unknowingly feminists have become polygamous/polyamorous by choice. Modern dating app data clearly illustrates this—most of the women are swiping right on the guys that are having all the sex, in spite of wanting a man to themselves. If you are an average guy on a dating app, get ready to destroy your self esteem.
What I find amusing is the pro choice —sex-with-whoever-you-want-culture, the women are choosing the same guys. There is even a fair amount of talk today, if you want an alpha male you are going to have to share him.
Women still want high achieving traditional men, but none of the women are raised to be wives—they are raised to be boss chicks, come with a high level of education and an attitude that “I don’t need no man”. They believe this entitles them to a high value traditional man—but this isn’t the kind of woman those men want. And it is the men that get to choose.
“If sex is all you have to offer, sex is all they’ll want” As women have become more masculine (contrary to evolutionary primate behavior) they have also found in increasing lonely and childless states—and when they realize they were given bad advice as girls, they are now women that competent men don’t want.
We may think we can outsmart evolution and our primate nature, but it seems the harder we try the more obvious it is that chimpanzees are our closest relative.
TheCommonAtheist 
I am here waiting for comments. This should be interesting
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We can’t outsmart natural selection. We might hold it back for a short time, but outcomes by now are very predictable.
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I overheard my son ( who is 6ft 2, independent, maintains all the social media stuff for the business and some may consider good looking) mentioned he had updated his “status” to ‘In a relationship etc etc’.
When asked why he bothered, he replied: “I’m active on social media for business reasons but I have to stop those b*****s from hassling me!”
It’s a different world from the one I grew up in!
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They are mostly off the chain, and like it or not that behavior is having consequences. We are primates, no doubt about it.
Your son is on the right track. Professor Wrangham tells a similar story of an alpha chimp he studied. Very interesting.
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I thought natural selection had nothing on us higher primates. Natural selection is for organisms below us
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Ya’ know, Mak, that comment gave me a thought … humans are now capable of manipulating the human body in numerous ways … so from that angle, can we attribute all changes within humans as natural selection?
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Just take away all that progress and social construct and see very quickly we have not physically evolved in any significant way for 100.000 years
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I think yes. The manipulation we have done is so miniscule as to register on an evolutionary scale. In fact, I don’t think we have done anything significant.
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The people that have benefitted from some of that manipulation might disagree with you. 😈
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The people you’re referring to, if they suddenly had three children in some post apocalyptic scenario they would be set back 1000’s of years. To compare medical interventions to genetic evolution is incorrect.
As a side not it will probably take some catastrophic change in our atmosphere to accentuate any change at all.
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OK. You’re right. I’m wrong. Satisfy you?
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I’m happy to be wrong Nan. I have no problem with that. I’ve changed my mind on numerous issues over the years, even based on some of your work and comments.
Can I make a prediction? When genetic manipulation can be passed generationally it will have massive unintended consequences.
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And they will be wrong
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A comment about men doing the choosing. On the contrary, it is the woman who makes the choice. I have married three times and in every case I can see how they chose me. Culture makes a difference. My wife is Japanese and I’m the luckiest guy in the world. Hope all are well. Cheers. GROG
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Question: Do you feel that other cultures are more respectful of the marriage relationship; thus, the union is more even-keeled?
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As far as marriages being even-keeled/mutually beneficial/successful each one is a gamble. I do think that cultures, which have a better understanding of human nature, have more “realistic” partnerships. So much has changed since mid-20th century. Who are the role models today? GROG
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Things have changed old guys. Women give access to sex, men give access to relationships. The data is very clear on this. Argue this with google analytics.
Evidently you are not an alpha male, which is what the majority of women today are seeking. 6 feet tall, 6 figure income, and a network of other capable men. Just like primate behavior.
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There is a new phenomenon too, passport wives—men are leaving the country to find traditional women
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“Majority” of women?
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Put yourself theoretically back in the dating pool Nan, and see what happens. Yes, a majority of women.
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I really have a bit of a problem with your use of “majority.” I would agree that the “dating scene” has changed (and of course I’m no longer a part of it so I can’t speak from “experience”), but I do question your “statistics.”
BTW, what prompted you to look into this?
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Richard Wranghams primate books “Catching fire” “The goodness paradox”, “Demonic Males” and his studies with Jane Goodall.
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Social Media has also had consequences where dating age women overvalue themselves based on likes. TikTok, instagram, and only fans has most women chasing the same few men. Put an average guy against all that competition and we have primate behavior in nutshell. The average, good man isn’t good enough to compete with attention.
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Just as a matter of interest — On Quora (which I don’t follow), someone asked “Do feminists want polyamorous relationships to be the norm?” Four individuals responded.
#1 — “They don’t. Most feminists are monogamous.”
#2 — “They just want women to have the same freedom to live promiscuously as men have.”
#3 — “False premise. Not all (or even many) feminists want this.”
#4 — “Let’s see. I am a feminist. I don’t want poly relationships to be the norm.”
Hmmm …
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This just proves my point. Nobody wants this but the data says this is what we have. The minority of men are sleeping with the majority of girls. Ask that to quora…
There is a subtle evolutionary advantage to men who are getting laid, that even women are not consciously aware of.
I was single for a while and not dating, then when I met my wife I had girls hitting on me every day. It was crazy. They know, they just don’t know they know. They are choosing the guy that is already getting the girls. This is primate behavior.
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What you say may all be true … but I feel your statements are pretty broad. As I questioned above … “the majority”?
I came across the Quora stuff via a Google search on your topic. I’m “signed up” but I don’t participate.
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The statements may be broad, so should we focus on the exceptions?
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Jim is your point that “Feminism has helped women revert to their natural, primate roles.” ? And female primate behavior is what? Oh, and where are all of these alpha males? The definitions I’ve read imply that they are a rare breed. If a female wants an alpha male for anything more substantial than sex, does she think she can find him on a dating app?? Thanks for the good old days. GROG
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Where exactly did you get this information/statistics from?
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You didn’t answer my question in a later reply. “Jim is your point that “Feminism has helped women revert to their natural, primate roles.” ? And female primate behavior is what?” There is a bit more but… GROG
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What is happening unbeknownst to themselves is they are all choosing mating strategies that mimic primates. Many females to one male. 5-10% of the guys have 80% of the girls
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Jim where is this info on dating apps you refer to?
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This is from swipestats which is tinders own analysis app. Here is typical breakdown and explanation from users.
You may think it is “unrealistic” that a girl who is say a 2 out of 10 is saying that you need to be six feet tall, six figure income, six pack abs and six inches or don’t bother even messaging her. That she wouldn’t even consider the average guy, her being well below average. But the truth is the top 5% of guys is willing to “hit it” with her. So she thinks she has a shot at landing that top 5% guy. So she ends up chasing the top 5% of guy hoping to catch him. Sadly for her she will find he “won’t commit” and “treats her bad”, etc. Sure he may go through the motions and words of commitment but really he is just “hitting it”. In reality that top 5% guy just is banging all the girls and only going to “hit it” and be in a “friends with benefits” with her and many other girls at once and will not commit to any girl. He will just keep banging all the girls. He is the top 5%. What is true for our 2 out of 10 example above is true for girls with higher (and lower) ratings as well. This is the current day dating landscape.
Looking towards the future. When the girl turns around 30+ or 40+ she will realize she can’t land that top 5% guy. She will start looking for an average guy to settle for and take care of her financially. She really is settling for this guy who she wouldn’t even consider years ago, but she must. She realizes she isn’t getting any younger and needs to make a move. So she settles and isn’t ever happy with the guy she settled for since she maybe could have had that top 5% guy, if she just had played her cards right. So she will be 80 years old have raised a family with a man she settled for. But in her heart wish for that top 5% guy who “hit it” a few times that maybe she could have had. That or maybe she will “not settle” and instead stay single likely for the rest of her life waiting to catch her top 5% prince. Both choices are crappy for her in the long run. Welcome to the present day dating market.
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I won’t dispute your statistics, Jim, but Statistics never tell the whole story. This sounds like it was a study paid for by a bunch of old fashioned incels.
I grew up in the Free Love 60s, before feminism really got started. Women chose men and men chose women not by looks or salaries, but by qualities of kindness and openness. As well as availability in some cases. If you “just wanted to get laid” there was usually someone else who wanted the same thing as you, no strings attached unless the strings grew out of chance encounters.
Moving forward, I hope you don’t mind my saying, this post sounds very judgmental, as if women should not be allowed to choose who they want to go to bed with. That does not sit well with me. I see no shortages of people getting married, and surely not all of them are smart women who only want high-achieving men. That is a very biased statement.
Personally I wish the tradition of marriage would get outdated. Too many people still get stuck with violent partners, and despite everything think they have to stay together because they formally promised to do so — and divorces can be mighty expensive.
So I am all for women participating equally with males in deciding who they want to be attached to. Yes, some will fit the the statistics you quoted, but they are not the majority of women. Just the majority of women that we used to call golddiggers. They have been around since time immemorial, and will probably be around as long as marriage is looked at as an economic construct.
Statistics can always be found to prove what someone wants to prove. These stats are no different, in my honest opinion.
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Women can choose who they sleep with but most valuable men don’t want a hoe and all the baggage that comes with that. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but the sexual marketplace dictates that value. Men of means want youth and purity. And a side chick
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Appearances. The “side chicks” as you call them they want horny as hell and with a lot of experience. Double standards, as usual. Okay for the guy to sow wild oats, but not okay for women to be well-plowed fields. Sorry, Jim, but you are way off base on this one! I buy none of 5his crap.
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Whatever. I have no moral opinion on it other than it is primate behavior of our closest relatives, the chimpanzee. You can not like it all you want but that doesn’t make it false
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But it also depends on your source, does it not? What you have come across may be true and accurate in academic circles, but not necessarily in real life.
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As women have increased in value their expectations have increased. They make their own money and don’t need men in the traditional sense. The problem is men of means don’t typically want a full charge woman. They literally do not care about how much money they make. This is the dating market, not me.
If I’m to ignore statistics where am I to look? And what other data should I ignore based on feelings?
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Again … “statistics” tell the academic side of studies. And they may or may not be accurate, often based on who is doing the studies. Since most of us live in and experience the “real world,” it can sometimes be difficult to blithely accept “statistics.”
I don’t doubt your source … I just think there’s more to it than hard, cold facts.
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In the spirit of mercy and political correctness you are right. But in reality it is much worse than I have stated in this watered down version.
If google analytics determines most clicks for porn are in Utah and Mississippi, would you dispute that because it’s not “real world”? That is actually the beauty of it. It isn’t biased
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Actually you do have a moral opinion and you stated it explicitly. Here is a direct quote from one of your additional comments. “most valuable men don’t want a hoe and all the baggage that comes with that”.
I will put up with a lot, but life is too short to waste my time reading something that is little more than a misogynistic rant that could have been taken from the worst of the incel forums.
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Wow, ok. That was a quote, not me. The data reflects men don’t want women that have been ran through for several years in the name of equality. The dating marketplace is dictating this, not me.
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I’m sorry you’re offended that feminism over time has revealed our primate nature. I’m also sorry if your offended by the terms modern dating has set as common speech.
I have always supported womens issues and have no moral judgement on it. It is what it is—once again we have not outsmarted evolution and natural selection.
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Women and men both choose, I’d say. Dating apps probably don’t favour the average looking of either sex but in real life people choose at their level, mostly. It’s the average looking guys with unattractive attitude that nobody wants, who then go off and mutter to themselves that women are getting too big for their boots and it’s very unfair.
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The point of the post is probably more in line with women who are free to do culturally whatever they want have inadvertently dove headfirst into primate behavior. Being too big for their boots is another issue—imagine in our PC culture where all the girls get likes and follows and they all believe they are a nine or ten, that is flat out delusional on their part.
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It’s all good with me. Had lots of men, now don’t want them and don’t care what they think. Can’t wait for them to evolve out of existence actually, though I’d keep some for the lols. And establish a sperm bank for the sake of the species. I mean really, what are men good for, apart from sperm? They fight, strut, mansplain and make a mess of everything, besides being annoying to have around.
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They also built the entire world you are now using to have a job, a phone, an internet, food, and without men you’d have no rail to rant on.
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Nah, I think we’d have done all that without you. Only better.
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Yeah you’re right
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😁👍👏👏
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While there are women out there who are like what you describe, I feel like you are making some gross generalisations here. You could also apply much of what you said to some men as well. Feminism has merely levelled the playing field so women can do what men have always done without critique. As for the dating apps bit, you are right it can be a self-esteem destroyer – coming from someone who has been there. Dating apps aren’t really designed well for long term relationships or satisfaction, otherwise the people who made the app couldn’t keep making money off their users.
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You may be right Ben. I’m not judging on any moral grounds but just noticing g a correlation between modern dating and Richard Wranghams work on primate behavior. I am not exempt from this behavior as well, and even though we think we’re guiding our own decisions that is not the case. We can actually use many of these studies to predict the future behaviors of human beings.
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What the fuck is all this ‘alpha male’ crap I see on twitter? Seems to all come from the right side of US politics. Have they just realised how small their dicks are?
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I’m not sure where it came from exactly, but I’m not surprised considering our roots. I think we can predict a lot from primate behavior which is evident in much of what’s out there.
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Well, yeah, we’re still animals, but we have a giant frontal lobe which enables us to not ‘act’ on impulse alone.
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It is being more consistently argued our cortical actions are in reality feeding the limbic system, which is the primal brain function. It is in charge of the cortex
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Speaking of primate behavior, there’s a great post at Amusing Nonsense that points out the “severe lack of progress humanity has made.”
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He makes good points, as usual.
Some of the latest research indicates that higher brain functions of humans exist to feed the limbic system—the primitive portion of our brains. Territory, food, and sex. Everything else is wishful. Even you and I play a role in the stability of these functions even when we sit back and watch it play out.
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I heard a radio interview linking to the results of online dating; it seems typical that 80% of the women on these services date only 20% of the men. So the breakdown about motivation and expectations and actual results was quite interesting.
Many of the women say they are looking for a long term emotional relationship and it’s really difficult to meet men of the caliber (particularly status males) they seek and develop that insight/experience/bonding that fuels long term relationships. Hence, they use various dating apps (you never know when you might meet the right guy) and yet continue to report very low levels of success so far (hopes spring eternal). But, interestingly, the 80% of women indicated they felt they were in competition with those other women using the same app, and the primary competition was all about sex (if they didn’t accept the sexual exchange, they’re feel they felt out of the running for those status males, so to speak, because they learned that these guys usually didn’t reconnect if immediate sex wasn’t part of the first encounter).
The males in that ‘status’ category (the top 20%) reported that they continued to use the service and were happy to do so because they got access to women willing to provide sex, so they have no reason to make any other commitments beyond the date itself. They were well satisfied with the attitude that women seemed quite willing to have immediate sex with them for whatever their own reasons might be, and reported that they thought both males and females were equivalent in their dating desires and goals. No harm, no foul. Thank goodness for women’s liberation.
If one knows that Japan’s population by 2100 will be half of what it is today, that China’s population will decline by 700,000,000, that half of all American women are unattached by age 35, and so on, and think this is all to the good because of lessened environmental impacts a smaller population has, consider by 2100 that for every person from countries with declining populations under the age of 25 will include eight over the age of 65. That will have profound societal implications.
This notion that women who produce babies and become mothers are somehow also required to have full time careers (and caregive the elderly with that extra spare time) to be seen as fully female BY OTHER FEMALES on such apps has profound societal implications in the long term. Yet of all the men I know in my life, 95% WANT a long term monogamous relationship with children.
So there is a significant disconnect between today’s dating females on such apps and the 80% of men swiped away by the searching female. And it ain’t the fault of men.
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Thank you. Right or wrong the choices we make have results. Men are increasingly going over seas to find traditional women as well.
Wait too, and see what the economic front will be like in a population collapse? We ain’t seen nothing yet
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I’m currently single but I had a lot more satisfaction when dating women who I didn’t meet via an app. Those apps can really wreck with social dynamics. I think the idea that many cling to that idea where there are many more “fish in the sea” can be a curse since it means people are less inclined to commit when things don’t go so well. Also the people who make those apps don’t make much money if people are satisfied.
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This video is really funny and captures another side of feminism and equality 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzpMRCeTHYE
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Men will continue to do the selfless dirty work. As you see in your country, more egalitarian highlights greater differences in men and women, not less as they had hoped.
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True, most women choose nurturing jobs, and men choose typical male jobs. Given the choice most men and women pick the stereotypical careers for their gender. Something they can do easily in a rich country like Norway. In poorer countries where there is more of a struggle to make ends meet we see another tendency. Women are much more likely to work hard to become engineers for instance. However, they also do not fight the gender norms like the west do. Feminism has gone too far, it has become a destructive force. There is nothing wrong with the genders being different and having strength and weaknesses according biological sex. This only means we can help each other out.
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Someone called me a bigot for saying men and women aren’t equal because of biological differences. I asked her why women are willing to compete only in the corporates and not hard labour. There’s an obvious biological difference but she says it’s the 21st century and what I’m saying doesn’t make sense.
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The name calling is requisite to no evidence. That’s all that movement has to offer is intolerance.
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This is so sexist, unscientific and deplorable! You should write about car racing or something!
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There is a lot of human behavior predictable through primates.
It is very scientific and sorry, I don’t play by your accusations to silence facts
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