What Denomination of Atheism are You?

How atheisms are limited to what we know we don’t know. Is there more to disbelieve?

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How much do we need to know before we can safely say we don’t believe?

Having not much in the way of indoctrinations outside Christianity, my unbelief is limited to a specific scope of practice—a field test of the words and ideas that were forced on me without my consent since birth. Really, can we reject all the other gods we don’t yet know?

Since we don’t know much about eastern religion, nor the meanings of orthodoxy, or Hinduism, most of us here have an atheism to the Yahweh god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The other gods we hardly know, so considering blanket disdain or unbelief in something unknown is nearly impossible but yet, hardly worth the time to explore it out.

The key strong belief lies in pretending this life holds vast importance, that your worry and concern are somehow moral, noble and righteous. But this just isn’t true, and fearing to really live life because of the dogmas has crippled humanity into a fear of being afraid, instead of allowing life to play out the scenes. Fear as a normal part of this exploration, like the order of operations, first comes fear, then comes the faith (which isn’t faith at all, but worry)

We have been conditioned to believe here in the Christian god out of fear and faithless worry, but really it’s all the other gods we don’t know that we should be concerned, worried, and watching about—for we know this one isn’t real.

Author: jim-

One minute info blogs breaking the faith trap.

136 thoughts on “What Denomination of Atheism are You?”

  1. i have some thoughts on all this, but there’s quite a few of them to sort out so i’ll get back to it later maybe; one thought at a time – with some conclusion. Otherwise it can easily (and sometimes people are really looking for the easy) be taken out of context.
    For now suffice: self believes in / and accepts many different kinds of things – not to exclude hardly anything and especially including native north American spirit faiths; and self discovers that none are preclusive of another; but actually all the same. Thanks for your post, it was interesting dropping by.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Question (and funny I never thought of this before): Is there a rock solid definition of/for atheism or does the concept run through a whole gamut of beliefs, perhaps better put, non-beliefs? I see by the comments here there’s all kinds of atheisms (not normally pluralized) and atheists, just as there’s all kinds of religions and religious people. Seems it all comes down to a matter of faith, what one chooses to believe, or not and how far one goes in a particular direction. If there is only one atheism then all atheists would have to adhere to one belief or non-belief. It can’t be admitting not knowing since that is already covered by agnosticism. So a declared atheist has to be absolutely certain of what she claims. But does that claim, say that Yahweh does not exist, make it true? Is it an imposable belief? I could choose not to believe in cars but that won’t make them go away. It could just mean I do not use one or I believe we would all be better without cars. Is atheism simply a personal opinion about God, divinities or perhaps everything to do with the etheric realms? What does it mean when someone says they’re atheist?

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    1. Really it’s pretty simple. I don’t believe the story and the different disciplines of science have replaced all but one area of god claimed power, and that is the moment of creation. That too will fall eventually. Atheism is simply not believing the hypothesis that there is a god at the helm. I was a little tongue and cheek in my post. We know the Abrahamic god not real as they try to present, so maybe we should fear the ones we haven’t studied yet because we know nothing of them. Great comment and questions though. Thank you kindly.

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    2. I refer to myself if asked as an agnostic atheist. I don’t know. I don’t believe in “Ggod(s)”.

      For me, it just means I don’t believe in a big “G” God, a little “g” god or gods.

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      1. Hi Zoe, you walked into my question with an oxymoron. An agnostic atheist has to be a contradiction. One can only be either/or. The agnostic admits she doesn’t know and can’t know. There isn’t even doubt involved, it’s just an “official” acknowledgment of unknowability(!) Atheism is the opposite: it is knowing that *God* and similar chimeras do, in fact not exist – and no wiggle room left for doubt at all. Unless of course we want to re-define “atheism” to make room for various degrees of certainty – that being a ridiculous claim. Atheism is a surgical blade that severs one’s mind from any specter of theism. Compared to a surgical operation against a cancer, if the blade missed and some aspects of the cancer remain, the operation did not create a cancer free patient. It failed and the cancer will return with a vengeance due to the now weakened condition of the patient. If you are an agnostic you know, for a fact, that you cannot know whether a God or gods actually exist and you choose to live with that not-knowing. If you are an atheist you know, for a fact, that God or gods do not exist, not in any shape or form, not at any time, nor can they ever exist. Atheism is an absolute position. Though it appears as a contradiction both atheism and agnosticism have to do with a knowledge base on faith and are irreconcilable beliefs. When it comes to divinities, unless you have interacted with them on a personal basis, you can only state what you believe about them through an act of faith. I have been both, atheist, then agnostic until I realized I was denying my own knowledge and living a lie. I know “God” and “gods” exist. I have interacted with “IT” on memorable occasions and I still interact with several divinities as do all people though most refuse to give them their proper title as living powers, serving them and worshiping them under the names of their particular functions among mankind.

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        1. Hi Sha’Tara,

          Somehow or other I hear a joke. Zoe and an oxymoron walked into a pub . . .

          If only I had a hundred dollars for every time someone has told me I’m wrong about being agnostic and atheistic &/or how I can’t be both.

          I wish I was up to the discussion. Been taking care of my mother-in-law 24/7 as she takes what is likely her final days/weeks/months on her journey. 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Hi Zoe, I was going to warn you about oxymorons as friends… they’re extremely contradictory, opinionated and they never listen to your side of the story.

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            1. Agnostic – I don’t know.

              Atheist – I live my life as though there is no God.

              Humanist – I care about us, the planet and the universe.

              Former Christian – Born-again, Conservative Evangelical.

              Secular – Non-religious. Separation of church and state.

              The above are terms that describe me.

              If others see a contradiction with this, I can live with it.

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        2. Sha’Tara says:
          09/15/2019 at 8:59 PM

          Hi Zoe, you walked into my question with an oxymoron. An agnostic atheist has to be a contradiction.

          Zoe:  I think I can live with any contradiction one might suggest.  I don’t know.  And I don’t practice.  

          One can only be either/or.

          Zoe:  Too literal for me.

          The agnostic admits she doesn’t know and can’t know. There isn’t even doubt involved, it’s just an “official” acknowledgment of unknowability(!)

          Zoe:  This agnostic leaves room for knowing, should evidence that convinces her be demonstrated.

          Atheism is the opposite: it is knowing that *God* and similar chimeras do, in fact not exist – and no wiggle room left for doubt at all.

          Zoe:  Too literal for me.

          Unless of course we want to re-define “atheism” to make room for various degrees of certainty

          Zoe:  I leave room for uncertainty.  A spectrum of sorts.

          – that being a ridiculous claim.

          Zoe:  Okay.

          Atheism is a surgical blade that severs one’s mind from any specter of theism. Compared to a surgical operation against a cancer, if the blade missed and some aspects of the cancer remain, the operation did not create a cancer free patient. It failed and the cancer will return with a vengeance due to the now weakened condition of the patient.

          Zoe:  The blade does not have to “miss” for some aspect of cancer to remain.  

          Zoe:  The goal of the blade is to excise the known cancer.  Even if the blade hits the mark and the known cancer is excised in total, the patient may still not be totally cancer free.

          Zoe:  Missing some cancer does not necessarily indicate failure, nor that the cancer will return (as the cancer is still there from the miss), and one cannot know with certainty, especially with cancer, what the outcome will be.

          If you are an agnostic you know, for a fact, that you cannot know whether a God or gods actually exist and you choose to live with that not-knowing.

          Zoe:  I am an agnostic in that I don’t know if God exists.  I don’t know.  I can live with that.  I also choose at this moment in time to live knowing that I cannot know whether I have cancer or not.  I could have cancer.  I don’t know for a fact.

          If you are an atheist you know, for a fact, that God or gods do not exist, not in any shape or form, not at any time, nor can they ever exist.

          Zoe:  That is what I believe. 

          Zoe:  I also believe for a fact that at this time I have no known cancer in any shape or form.  I cannot say factually, that cancer in me does not exist nor will ever exist in me.  

          Atheism is an absolute position.

          Zoe:  I’m not convinced.

          Though it appears as a contradiction both atheism and agnosticism have to do with a knowledge base on faith and are irreconcilable beliefs.

          Zoe:  I do not have faith that my current positions on being both agnostic and atheistic are irreconcilable.

          When it comes to divinities, unless you have interacted with them on a personal basis,

          Zoe:  I have.

          you can only state what you believe about them through an act of faith.

          Zoe:  Okay.

          I have been both, atheist, then agnostic until I realized I was denying my own knowledge and living a lie.

          Zoe:  Yes.  I remember the day I realized I was denying my own knowledge and living a lie.

          I know “God” and “gods” exist.

          Zoe:  There was a time when I did.

          I have interacted with “IT” on memorable occasions

          Zoe:  Me too.

          and I still interact with several divinities

          Zoe:  I don’t.

          as do all people though most refuse to give them their proper title as living powers, serving them and worshiping them under the names of their particular functions among mankind.

          Yes.  Reminds me of my Christian years.

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          1. “Atheism: Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which, in its most general form, is the belief that at least one deity exists. More at Wikipedia
            According to this, if you are an atheist, you cannot be an agnostic, in the same token that if your were number four in a race you could not be number one just by saying it’s just a matter of belief. That’s the point of this exercise in semantics and from my viewpoint, as an ESL’er I need to feel the sharp point of meaning to follow a discussion – it’s how I had to learn English: it’s a technical thing.
            When I speak of gods I use the more correct term of Powers. The Powers on earth are not all related to official religions. You have two other very powerful deities that run this world: the State and Money, or to use its name, Mammon. (Look up Mammon meaning) These Powers rule mankind with an iron fist and the vast majority just believe in them and by will or force, “worship” them by doing exactly what these ‘gods’ demand of them. The State and Money both have the power of life and death over billions of people and that is what defines them as gods. When people believe in money as necessary to survival (a totally false belief but global in nature) and government as necessary to the proper ordering of civilization despite all evidence to the contrary, they are faith driven, not observation, intelligence or experience driven. Anything faith driven elevates the object of that faith to the status of divinity.
            The gods of ancient times were real and possessed vast powers beyond any human understanding. We were programmed to believe in such powers and ever since then we’ve driven to develop and surpass those powers for ourselves. That explains why we are willing to destroy our world and kill millions without qualm to assert our own divine prerogative over the world. If you wanted it in simple terms, no one can ever claim to be an atheist in the broader sense, only in the specific sense of denying the existence of mythical unseen beings.
            Wow, how I do ramble on.

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  3. My experience is that being an atheist means that you reject the Christian god (only). Like you said, though, there’s a lot of gods out there that we don’t know anything about.

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    1. I expect no less from you. If you ever return to church, would that then put you in the “never was a real atheist” crowd, since you never we a real Christian either?

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  4. Hi<3 A friendly discussion tempered with love is what I seek. God would not be confined by human construct assuming that such an intelligence exist. Nor would this constant be restricted by human religion. If we think about it a creator would have created us, not the other way around; humankind creating him through religion. All perspective, knowledge and science are sifted through by the observer due to undeniable limitations. Picking and choosing in order make sense of the reality experienced. Personal biases, straw men and such are all like our own reflections in the mirror, we cannot look past them. No matter how much we move on this surface and dimension, we are always greeted back with our own familiar face. It is impossible to become neutral. That would be comparable to only bringing your profession to work and leaving yourself at home. Hugs, Isabella

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    1. Hey you. My morning, your night, oh indeed the bloggers life… How is my WP neoNorwegian outpost today? If this is a creation it is not then artificial—not naturally occurring, but synthetic? I would guess that whatever makes this clock tick is so fundamental to our core we could never recognize it. The whole thing is us, me, I. I am a manifestation of the entire universe, connected at every level of the game. ⚔️

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      1. Hey! Now it is my morning and your night, and I am very well thank you hope you are too. You know, for once I really do agree with you. Very well put:-) <3. We are all connected to the universe and each other. The universe is us and we are the universe and quite scientifically we are all at the center of the it (the universe).

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  5. Is there a denomination that gives out free candy? Because I’d like to join that one.

    They say atheists aren’t joiners. But no one has ever tried giving them free stuff.

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      1. These ones have been pretty mild. Only like 20 fatalities. Which… in a country with a murder rate of +/- 64 individuals a day… is… well… its about a 1/3rd.

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  6. You Asked — “What Denomination of Atheism are You?”

    My Response — There are hundreds of denominations of Atheism and most atheists have so many it’s too difficult to keep count of. It’s a good question but the answer would be a small book.

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        1. It’s been a weird couple of months. I’m out of sync. We’re not going to solve this all in a day. Hell , 10,000 more years maybe.

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  7. I was raised a Christian so I was taught from an early age that all other religions were false. When I lost my faith in Christianity, I never even bothered to look into all those “false” religions I overlooked for four decades.

    I suppose there could be some truth to some of those religions. They could all be completely wrong. I don’t know and to be honest, I don’t care. The fact that not one god has ever tried reaching me is all I need to know. If I was supposed to do something or know something in order to be pleasing in the eyes of God, I must’ve missed the memo. I’m not hiding from any god, but if any do exist, they are certainly hiding from all of us.

    I have no desire to learn about what man’s versions of other gods are today. The ancient ones intrigue me though. Greek mythology is quite poetic and entertaining. The gods of today seem rather boring and reclusive in comparison.

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    1. I think there are some interesting and productive ways to look at the world, ideas that are fun to toss around. I draw the line at believing because I’m expected to…or else! Why, a god would not need others to tell us about its existence

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      1. With so many people not believing to begin with and people losing their faith, clearly a God who wants to be known has failed. Failure on God’s part does not equate to a failure on mine. All of us, believers and non-believers alike, would be convinced in an instant…if there was something to be convinced of.

        There is much more to this world than what many of us have been taught and life is too short to ignore it.

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            1. Thank you. It all seems so obvious now. Really appreciate your insights and observations as well. It’s pretty amazing what one can do on their own when they put down the commentary and stop having someone breathing down our necks telling us what it all means and what to think.

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    2. Yeah, the ancients knew all about their “gods” because these ‘gods’ were real to them, or recently real. A lot of deliberately hidden history veiled by the modern interpretation of the term ‘god’. Just imagine if we had a history that completely wiped out any reference to all monarchic powers on earth. If a monarch’s name surfaced it would be declared a “god” so that the Muggles do not seek to know what such entities could have been, or what sort of power they once had. Once made into gods, they slip into the grab-bag of mythology and no one looks anymore. Your ‘gods’ Earth people were, once upon a time, just as real as you are. Then they left and gradually and for very good reasons, history was changed and real beings, most often known as the Anunnaki, became gods, and ridiculously symbolized as star groupings in “the heavens” and religion was truly born on the power of a vampiric priesthood that ruled the world with a bloody iron fist. Long story that which few people take the time, or the bother, to research and ponder. Easier to accept whatever the status quo feeds. It doesn’t matter to the Matrix what anyone believes in as long as they believe IN something- that’s the key to absolute control and total disempowerment of the masses.

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  8. Amen to that Jim. There’s as much chance of there being acres in that field we know nothing of that exists as there is acres of nothing at all. It’s how humans handle this information that’s the problem.

    -Esme sat with a handful of Small Gods and one medium sized dog upon the Cloud

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    1. I have acres of absent mindedness. I’m becoming a burden to myself already, hearing aids, glasses, belt, lunch, hat, keys, coat, coffee, just to get out the door. If I’m going to forget something it will certainly be within the realms of religious fields of imagination.

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      1. could you think, before you are? could you do anything, before being? could you have any experience, before existing? no. first you must Be, before you can hold a concept.

        Descartes messed it all up for us. it’s ‘i am, therefore i think’. you see, the thought, is quite irrelevant, and totally dependent on consciousness

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    1. Interesting. But the chances that someone breathed that same air is probably pretty good. I was reading the other day that if the earth was the size of a beach ball, the atmosphere would be an ultra-thin thin coat of paint. In the big picture, there is very little that separates us from becoming like the other planets. We ought to be more careful.

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  9. On Utube there is a site called Close to Truth…full of astro and theoretical physicists..loads of interesting short topics…

    Here is one man I like.

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    1. Fabulous. And just because there is no answer yet, doesn’t default to god did it. The theist should be required to show the proof he is expecting from the scientists.

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  10. No gods, no superbeings, no creators, or ultimate judges. Yet I believe in life as a force that drives most of us towards progressing as a lifeform to create a better world for all living beings. For those of your readers who do not know me well, life is not just some thing that causes us to be alive, but what I call a form of spirituality which joins every single living being to every other single being for the betterment of all. Even humans, although a vast majority of humans are content to disregard that spirituality and believe we are the only species worth anything, and we can crap on everything else without fear of reprisal because we are “vastly more intelligent” than any other species. Look where THAT has got us.
    No, we are all part of a vast system called life, but not a systen as humans think of systems. It is a system without direction, without authority. As far as this Earth is concerned, life started in the primordial soup, and exists in chaos. But that chaos is such that it moves upwards and onwards, always seeking a better way of survival, for if life ends, existence ends.
    Yet I also believe in what we call the supernatural from here on Earth, but which is not supernatural when seen from the other end of the spectrum, “all that is,” or what I call the cosmos. I know some people who see something similar, but they insist on calling it god, because they need to have something outside of themselves to believe in, which is how they were brainwashed to believe. Contrarywise, I look inside myself, and look at the power inherent in life which all of us have, and I proudly assert that I am a part of life, and life has no gods.
    I have written too lengthily on this here, sorry Jim. But because of your question I felt compelled to answer it as fully as I can. Suffice it to say I also believe in reincarnation, but not quite as the great Eastern religions do. Maybe another time…

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    1. I don’t believe in reincarnation but I do believe based on evidence that we are all connected to a stream of data that infiltrates everything everywhere simultaneously. People pick up this stream in the sense of past lives, but it may just be that connection. We are all part of some game without meaning but its own experience for the sake of an entertaining drama.

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      1. And we need more people to see things like this, regardless of what we might believe surrounding this reality. Which is why I breezed over reincarnation, I was being honest, as are you, but this part is not necessary. The rest is, IMHO.

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      2. There is a book, I have not read, The Hidden Life of Trees… I think it’s much along the lines of connectiveness. I like what RG has to say…his philosophy, but I too do not believe in reincarnation unless by that, you mean a recycling and shuffling of our very atoms mixed with other Star stuff. I do not believe we have a soul.

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        1. On the soul, you exist now. From here on you can not, not exist ever again and likely always have. With stardust and matter there is another element of consciousness and mind that will have always existed now that it does. How could you ever have not been, and now been? It’s amazing really.

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          1. In an elemental sense, right. But I don’t believe “me” my unique consciousness continues or has been before. At the most maybe in some energy data digital information way that adds to the sum of the universe, but not the “me” of today.

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            1. If any of it has any meaning, we are dropped into this drama for a spell for the thrill of not knowing. It would be the one concept the collective could barely imagine, therefor a fun excursion with all the danger you could never comprehend or experience otherwise. And when you die…you wake up and go whew! What a rush, and laugh it off.

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          2. Agreed.

            Unless “Now” is the only thing that exists and time does not but in absence of that I would say I agree with your full statement.

            You Stated — “On the soul, you exist now. From here on you can not, not exist ever again and likely always have. With stardust and matter there is another element of consciousness and mind that will have always existed now that it does. How could you ever have not been, and now been? It’s amazing really.”

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      3. What is “it” that connects us to your stream of data Jim? The “what part of me” that taps into the “great unconscious” is what has puzzled and fascinated me once I broke free of the divine intervention interpretation. I discovered that I was primarily a mind, and that this mind transcends space and time. That mind is comfortable in seeking reality anywhere, in any form, and raises no barriers to any thought not of its own provenance. In the vernacular I translated that as ‘believe all things, believe in nothing.’ So it’s not so much that I have reincarnated uncounted times, it’s allowing this “me” to allow its mind to use this awareness to expand the current self I think of myself as. If I were to be afraid of “remembrances” – particularly of those thoughts that describe any possible future, then the current ‘me’ would remain closed, boxed in, fearful of change. It would likely seek out the dubious comfort of some religious practice in the hope that something other than me, something bigger, smarter, perhaps even all-knowning, would be there to provide the thoughts I’m too chicken to allow to be my own. In other words I would be afraid to own myself and my personal reality. As you know, I would never call myself an atheist (or part of any other ‘ism’) because my mind understands that “religion” extends into all aspects of society through unproven beliefs, be they in science, politics, economics, history, philosophy and etc.. It’s all religion inasmuch as it all requires faith to function in these things simply because as an individual I do not have the means to personally prove that any of the things these powers claim are in fact true. Yes, they can demonstrate certain things, and make certain things work, but when you really look at all of it, there is no real proof or truth in any of it. People believe, and its their beliefs that allow civilization to ponderously move along, crushing more and more of the planet until the inevitable end when faith will no longer carry it. What shows me this? That “thing” that connects me to the stream of data transcending time.

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        1. Perhaps the stream of conscious connection is merely electrical impulses contacting the source energies through this bipedal with the three pound blob of fat and water that radiates its own waves (12watts per day) and this low voltage subtlety is a reader of sorts (there’s no proof thoughts originate in your head, but to the contrary) gathering information and relaying back what we see.
          But, for what purpose? To alleviate boredom we get in on the drama, and the only reason it works is this physical experience lacks the memory of before, and the outcome of the future. What a rush it will be upon tragic death to know this is a huge cosmic game, and really the only experience available for eternal entertainment is to not know that it’s all a game. Life is just somewhere in between death. It is unconscionable to imagine nothing before this experience, the same as after. When you are dead in this body, whatever the case, we’ll return to our natural state, so no worries.

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          1. It’s not a question of worrying, Jim, for no matter how much one worries, time and tide… heh? But we are curious creatures, designed to question, to quest and to desire knowledge, even if too many choose not to exercise those options. I like the wide open vistas offered by “believe all things” which eliminates the fear and worry, while remaining safely out of the trap of belief by “believing in nothing.” All this negative focus on “God” or the existence of an intelligent and interacting spirit realm is wasteful in my opinion. I know that God of necessity has to exist and I know, from personal experience, that the spirit realm (or call it the mind realm) is alive and well because I spend more and more time there as my days fly away. Oh, did I say I know God exists? I should explain, again: God exists because billions of ISSA entities believe in God and many claim to have had some interaction with same of some kind or other. Would I, because I don’t like God (and I REALLY REALLY DON’T LIKE GOD!) have the gall to deny that relationship which billions have with their God, or gods, or goddesses, or dragons or eagles or whatever, whomever? I may not need such things (beliefs) to know myself, but if they need them…? I may not need a wheelchair to get around but should I kick people out of their wheelchairs because I deem them unnecessary, perhaps even dangerous? I can ride a bike, should I kick a child off of hers because she is using training wheels? I practice detachment and continually push myself deeper into self empowerment. That has to translate as becoming more accepting, understanding, compassionate and finally the truly tough one: empathetic.
            I HATE all religions, bar none, with Islam and Christianity at the very top of my list. I make no apology for that. However and honestly, I do not, nor cannot, hate Christians or Muslims. That may be a weird dichotomy, but that’s how it is. I can separate people from their machines and as I pointed out recently in a comment, everything we engage in, not just official religion, has an element of faith in it: absolutely everything. We believe because our entire civilization is built on faith. From that basis, I’ve never met an atheist. Who doesn’t believe in money? Yet it is a fact that money is a chimera, utterly worthless, utterly meaningless were it not for the faith people put in it. Once upon a time “Money” had a name, it was a god and it was called “Mammon.” It’s also been called filthy lucre, and for very good reason: it’s a dirty belief system that allows predatory capitalism to spread its evil all over this world and all it is, is faith. So banks are churches and the financial ‘System’ is the most popular and powerful religion on earth.

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          2. Jim…So you do or do not believe in reincarnation? Or a cosmic mind that your particular consciousness stays intact within or not when you die.

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            1. I like the idea but can’t say I believe it. There is evidence of both being possibilities. I would lean towards the data is always out there, somewhere in the realm of where thoughts come from. Certain individuals attuned to those specific frequencies, tap into those thoughts from the cosmos and imagine themselves reliving it. Like the Anne Frank reincarnation. I wouldn’t agree she was Anne Frank reincarnated, but tapping into that conscious part of life that that remains. But, that then begs the question, is there a difference at that point?

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        2. You Stated — “That mind is comfortable in seeking reality anywhere, in any form, and raises no barriers to any thought not of its own provenance. ”

          But You Also Stated — “once I broke free of the divine intervention interpretation.”

          My Question — How can they both be true?

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          1. Sorry Lander, I missed that. I thought it was addressed to someone else, didn’t recognize the quotes as from my comment. Okay, so… I don’t see a problem between the two statements. A free mind lets thoughts flow through itself, borrow what it needs, or wants, lets the rest go free. It doesn’t “worry” about the thoughts as they don’t belong to the free mind which owns and owes nothing to anyone. Freedom. But someone like myself had to arrive “here” and is forever “arriving.” The breaking free is an aspect of the free mind’s realized reality and her freedom to choose. She has to become her own interpretation of all data or reject that data until she can verify it for herself. Divine intervention interpretation was something she accepted for a long time, then she could no longer accept it so she rejected it. She broke free of that one aspect of Matrix control; that one aspect of the collective programming. It was only one of many but it was a major hurdle in her path to self empowerment, a path that has no ending. She will go on balancing herself, rejecting many more claims and adding new ones to her repertoire as she grows, expanding her awareness throughout the cosmos, throughout eternity in infinity. Thanks for your question.

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            1. You Stated — “A free mind lets thoughts flow through itself, borrow what it needs, or wants, lets the rest go free. It doesn’t “worry” about the thoughts as they don’t belong to the free mind which owns and owes nothing to anyone. ”

              My Response — This statement makes sense but I’m curious about your perspective. You stated, “I broke free of the divine intervention interpretation”, which is not “FLOW” but rather “FORCE”.

              Why do you need to break free of any thought when all thoughts flow free?

              Wouldn’t you simply borrow from it and let it go free? It seems by description you see “Divine Intervention” to be less free and more sticky.

              Liked by 1 person

            2. Please note that my ‘breaking free’ is in past tense. I was once under the programming. I did not have a free mind. Then it all began to break up and I realized what the Teachers meant about self empowerment. But note also that this is an endless process. I will never be completely free. Some things will want to stick and will do so unawares until they stand across my path, then I’ll see them and deal with them. This isn’t magic, it’s hard work. Hard choices, especially here on this earth. This is a totally controlled environment we live in, there is no safe place, no “free” place. Whatever we gain is ever threatened with loss, with regression, misdirection, subterfuge and the big one: substitution. I never go out without my armor!

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            3. Interesting, so being human is hard work. On the bright side, from your description, at least the world isn’t boring, a bit threatening maybe but not boring.

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            4. Correct! This world is definitely not boring, at least not for the spiritually minded being. The closer I approach my exit, the less boring it gets. So much I still want to grasp of possible knowledge before the door closes and I’m out of the attic, possibly for a long time, possibly never to enter that same attic again.

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    2. I don’t know whether I believe in reincarnation or not. A part of me does, but not quite like the Buddhist idea, where they go in search of the new Dalai Lama (when an old one dies) based on some searching and testing, looking for miraculous remembering of articles and philosophies belonging to the old Dalai Lama.

      It is a difficult idea, but I do believe that we are the soup of all energy (alive or dead) and am open to the possibility that genetically, some of our life carries on in some way. Will I come back as part of a bird, or a person or something else? I don’t think we can know, so few of us can prove memories of a previous life… Imagination is a very strong thing. In itself, it can create. If you don’t believe that, why do people develop multiple personalities to cope with terrible traumas, taking themselves away from it in their imagination.
      I think we need to remain open minded and not make strict definitions. Love and compassion can open the doors on everything. Closed thinking, hatreds, failed dogmas… All of that closes the doors on possibility.

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        1. That is a great example Mary. And doesn’t it just indicate how death benefits life. We are likely drinking water that has seen the lives and deaths of every creature that has ever existed. We are all a part of the whole.

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      1. Well said, Colette. The reason I believe reincarnation as I do is because I have the experience in this lifetime of having had my feet in the “pool of dead lives,” or whatever you want to call it. Twice. You do not have to believe me, because both times I was under the influence of LSD, but for me the LSD was just the vehicle that allowed me to travel between life on earth and life in a totally different realm of reality. I have described this on my blog at least once, and refered to it many times there and in other places, many of which no longer exist. But these experiences changed me dramatically, and I doubt imagination could have such a huge effect on me. It took 40 years to even start to understand what happened to me, and the spiritual changes I have been through. To me, reincarnation is not a theory, but a reality. And the type of spirituality I described above is equally a reality, not something I read or heard about. But while I talk about it, and live it, I try not to preach it to anyone else. All I want to do is offer it as a possibility for others to contemplate. For me, it is my life.
        l

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        1. Hi rawgod,

          How do I separate the contemplation from the vehicle, ie) LSD influence?

          I know this is difficult for me to put words too and I intend no offence or is it offense? Tired this morning.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Hi Zoe,
            A vehicle is something that transports. I don’t mean to be simplistic, but whether a shopping cart, an automobile, a plane, or a spaceship, something is taken somewhere.
            In my case, my mind was transported by a bit of LSD from earthly reality to cosmic reality. It actually, not just literally, opened a door in my mind and took me up a long tube (what Buddhists call the “Silver Cord, perhaps?”) and planted me in a place where newly-dead spirits were sinking into a pool-like area as their lives played back for them to examine. This process started for me but was cut-short when I declared I was still alive and was not ready to be dead. Suddenly I was going down the tube back to earthly reality, and as in a dramatic movie I barely made it through the closing door back to earthly reality. Taking the scientific approach about ten days later I took LSD again, and tried to be more aware of what was happening around me. I cannot tell it all here for obvious reasons, but the same thing happened again, except with the knowledge that if I tried this again I would not be able to interrupt the process, and that I would return to earthly reality only when I had a new body to live in! I never took acid again.
            These experiences were in 1969, and I spent decades trying to figure out exactly what they were, and I still cannot fully describe that 50 years later.
            What I can say, if these were hallucinations, which I was not prone to, then I had one helluva fantastic imagination.
            I did go “unsane” for a number of years, trying to come to terms with what had happened to me, but slowly I began to piece things together, and now no one would ever be able to convince me they were not real.
            I am not about to say they are real for everyone, millions of people took LSD way more than ever I did, and never experienced anything close to what I experienced. But through the internet I have met a few who did, and their experience was pretty much mine, only some had more symbolic perceptions. Theists saw it as meeting god. Myself and one other perceived it as ultimate life, with no god-like being involved. I was only an agnostic at the time, not a full-fledged atheist, but I was at a point I could have seen a god-being had I been looking for one. No matter, I never saw one.
            I am now a total atheist, no possibility in even thinking there might be a god. But that there is a reality beyond human reality, what some people call supernatural, or metaphysical, I belive something does exist. The two complement each other, not negate each other as many insist. But others believe what is best for them, whether theist or atheist. I believe I experienced a beyond-reality, and that is how I will go to my cremation.
            I am not the same person I was before those two “trips,” and I like myself much better for having taken them.
            I hope this answers your questions somewhat. My email is gewcolo@gmail.com if you have anything else you care to discuss.

            Liked by 2 people

            1. I’m actually amazed at how closely your LSD experience parallels several of mine done simply by lucid dreaming or some kind of meditation. Difference being I did encounter a being at the far end of my travel. I think we see, or do not see, whatever our mind is set to accept. If one compared astral travel to net surfing, one could say that you went with your “ad blocker” engaged and I was open to seeing the ads… 🙂 You could have come back with the fact there is nothing there and I could have been the one who was conned. Still though, “something” was there…

              Liked by 1 person

            2. There was something there, certainly, S’T. As I suggested, you see what you want to see, or were convinced to see. I took no ego with me, so I saw what I saw.
              I like the “ad-blocker” analogy, it’s cute.
              But I have always maintained you and I see the same conclusions, just coming from differing viewpoints. This changes nothing for me.

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            3. Quite so, yes Jim. I think of it as info storage on “the cloud”! According to the Altarian Teachers, what is known as Akashic records are both the purpose and subsequent function of an actual living entity, a living mind, not a static place nor the product of artificial intelligence.

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            4. Well said. I know a couple of people here that have been teaching me the basics, but I am going to try to go in and see what is the low down. All with the most honorable intent, of course. I’m truly curious about the things I’ve been hearing. Ive also been communicating with Lander a bit about his data stream theory and all the connections and research he’s been doing. I’ll let you know how it goes. Tips?

              Like

            5. Three tips: open mind, open mind and more open mind. Remember this, that keeping an open mind does not automatically mean your brain will fall out… 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

            6. Thank you rawgod. I’ll probably read it several times. I’m too tired to make my brain work right now except to say I have read many books on depression &/or trauma and have read where some people have been helped by drug-induced “trips”. I just now tried to say more and thought to myself, Zoe, leave it for now. 🙂

              In grade 8, back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth I did my speech on LSD. I won first place in our school and competed at the county level (I did not place) as well as the legion, where I placed first again. When I think about it, writing that speech was quite the trip. 😉

              Liked by 2 people

            7. lol. I’m quite sure it was, and I’m glad you made some kind on sense in it. Often it is not possible to make straight minds understand a stoned mind.
              But grade 8? It must have been blotter acid or something really clean. Acid in my day was never clean, it was always cut with something that made it a body stone as well as a mind stone. I was 20 when these trips happened, and it was all I could do to keep myself together enough till I was alone and safe at home. A roomful of people would have totally freaked me out!

              If you were playing with dinosaurs I must have been living in the primal soup. Oh, yeah, I was. Almost forgot for a billennium or four.

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            8. I have no idea how I pulled that off rawgod. How I ever took info like that, so over my head, I’d think and made enough sense out of it to make sense . . . wild. Wish I still had the speech.

              Liked by 1 person

            9. Are you still near your school. Some teachers save these things, even after they retire. If you can get in touch with him or her, why not ask!

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            10. Possibly. But I think Zoe’s Grade 8 teacher is not so old as the reported dinosaurs Zoe claims to have gone to school with. At worst the dinosaur would have been named Cecil, or Dino, but probably not even that old. Maybe Barney?

              Liked by 2 people

            11. The speech is gone, so is my valedictorian speech and the book I wrote for kindergarten in grade 8. I finished the spelling/grammar/english curriculum by February so I was told to write and illustrate a book for the little ones. I did. Copies were made and distributed. I don’t have one. Without going into too much detail, we kids all came home from school one day and mom had literally thrown all of our stuff out. I guess she needed the drawer space? Life goes on. 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

            12. Thank you rawgod. I lost quite a bit growing up. Oddly enough, I must have had my athletic stuff somewhere else that day. I have an entire scrap book I made of my teams, awards etc. all the way through college. In a way, they were my most important keepsakes. They represent the best part of my joy in my younger days. 🙂

              Liked by 1 person

  11. I admit my policy isn’t a great fix but I tend to use the term “agnostic” for myself because I don’t like some of the politics around the word “atheist.” There are some atheists out there (not you at all of course) who are intolerant and hateful of certain disadvantaged communities such as Muslim refugees and immigrants. My BS detector tells me they use the term to mask assumptions of white supremacy and as an excuse to judge and attack whole groups of people based on their religion and skin colour. I don’t want anyone I’ve just met to accidentally think I share those political views so I sidestep by saying I am agnostic. Anyone who actually knows me understands my political and religious positions.

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  12. I have looked rather scantily at most faiths/religions in the world, and even paganism, and animalism (forerunners of more modern ritualistic faiths), like tha aboriginal versions of the ‘Great Dreaming,’ have an element of some over riding great force that has made our life possible.

    I have not yet determined if there is an outside force or our own wild imaginings, that put these notions into play, but either way, they are a means of ‘control’ of our behaviour.

    I am atheistic leaning, but can I call myself a complete atheist? I would have to say no, because I feel an energy in the world that once tapped into, seems to create the impossible. A part of me says that our thoughts and deeds create our world… That is something that happens without our individual response, but more with our collective one.

    There have been some rudimentary studies done in regard to the collective ‘sending of love’ by a group of people focused on the same thing, the same outcome. Such studies of course have also been conducted with individuals, but the power of many, forces the greatest change.

    https://asayamind.com/danger-10-experiments-that-will-forever-change-how-you-think-about-your-thinking/

    We don’t really know the subtleties of our own existence, and we cannot with certainty say there is no outside influence, but it could be that our own electrical energy influence, is that ‘thing’ that we look so hard for and never find. Truly, I think it is inside us and we are capable of beautiful things as well as the ugly. It depends always on our own focus, and we have not yet learned how to control it or use it wisely.

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    1. colettebytes: Animism is not the forerunner of more modern ritualistic faiths even though your junior high social studies teacher may have said so. Animism is a practice that extends from prehistory to contemporary times and has been and is practiced globally. It is a relational epistemology. Science is also a type of epistemology as it describes a process by which one answers the questions: What do we know and how do we know it. I am sure you know the scientific method. The animistic method is similar in that it is also interested in material experience collected by the human senses and thought processes but it also adds on other layers of knowing: Intuition, emotions are as valued as interactive experience.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. I am aware of Animism in the modern day. It is quite instrumental in the Buddhism of Thailand, and the Jains of India. To some extent I think it present in my own life because I attribute a lot more to trees and other animals, than most people. I do not practice the shamanism aspects of animism, but yet… As I say in my comment, there is something inside us all… Animals and humans alike, that is a connector. Indeed, I would say, that Animism as an ancient and modern form of religion, may just have some spark of what we might be looking for and have corrupted into methods of control, over the millenia. ❤️

        Liked by 4 people

        1. I think the experience of animism is close to universal. Many people know their pets have feelings and intentions and they certainly build relationships with them. A lot of people even name their cars and computers. They may not label themselves as animists but they certainly behave as if they are. EI have to disagree with your idea that animism is a religion; it is an epistemology. It hasn’t been corrupted because it remains itself. The idea that animism was a precursor to organized religion comes from a theory proposed by an anthropologist in the 19th century who was doing a lot of guesswork without listening to people who actually practice animism. Modern anthropologists have updated his theory. It is no longer canon.

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      1. It is, but I do encourage people to make their own research on the possibilities. Lynne Mctaggart is maligned by mainstream media, health professionals and disbelievers who chew through her reports like chompers on a computer screen (she is first, and foremost, a reporter). They try to debunk the theories as fast as they come out.
        I did find this comment on her 2014 intention experiment though… Written by a doctor (but I haven’t got permission to post the comment so have removed his name and location…)

        “Dear Lynne,
        I love your books not only because I strongly believe
        in “Thoughts over matters” despite being a scientific guy (cardiac surgeon & intensivist) but also because your research approaches are very professional.
        Beside, I am also a Zen Master and the Zero Field Point content is very similar to our 2,500 years old Buddhist views such as:
        1) Universal energy/consciousness,
        2) Interconnection & interdependence among all living beings that we call “inter-beings”,
        3) Minds & matter are one entity at the quantum level.
        4) Thoughts can be controlled,projected for positive impacts.
        4) Nonlocality of our immaterial world.
        All of these and few more are parts of my teaching.
        Oriental science and & spirituality are far more advanced than our Occidental and materialistic ones.
        I will be happy to join your groups in helping others.
        Once again, congrats for your work.
        With peace and kindness.”

        I think the number of experiments being done with ‘intention of thought’ will grow. And it does beg the question of how intention affects what we see in the world, a fluid, dynamic and constantly changing expression of energy manifestation. The secret is to find out why? And where else does it occur.

        It is interesting to note that if ‘time,’ a man-made construct, is taken out of the equation, our lifespan has no relevance. It could be seen as a microcosm or as an eternity. We live our life at a constant speed, slower than a bee (only 13 weeks) but faster than a tree (thousands of years). Our experience of the world is limited by our physical constraints and there is a soup of stuff out there that we cannot even comprehend, let alone see. All we know really, is that during our life, we cross paths with many other living entities, each doing their own journey of possibilities.

        Liked by 2 people

  13. There may in fact be a God who is responsible for the creation of all there is. I don’t believe we would ever really know it. I guess by definition, he/she/it would have to be outside or ‘above’ it all, thus beyond our detection in the natural world except as he makes brief incursions. But on those incursions, how would you be able to tell they were divine vs natural in origin? And how would you trace that origin from the natural to the extra-natural? I’m not sure we could do that either.
    I guess I’m not willing to say I’m atheist, but I no longer believe it’s possible to know if there is or is not a god, so why believe what you have no way of getting reliable evidence for?

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Whatever the case, the fact that there is anything and in whatever way we are aware of it… is amazing. I think whatever it is is so fundamental to our being that we could never recognize it. We are just a part of it, for I am not me without my surrounding environs and everything else in between we’re all a part of a whole. Even my rambling… haha

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  14. Religion at its core is about believing in something…rules, fears, rituals, afterlifes, favoritism, groveling, etc. etc. it’s all nonsense.

    If there is any creative force, which obviously there is (think quantum mechanics), it is pure science and either something from nothing or something all along eternal.

    In either case, it’s an unimaginable long long view and all these religions from the past and perhaps into the future are a waste of time and deter and obstruct any genuine effort to progress into a better, fairer, more sane and sustainable world, while it lasts.

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    1. If only people weren’t afraid of fear they may not be so preoccupied with worry and concern. Insulating thoughts in spite of reality.

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  15. I suppose one could call me a Catholic-Atheist. I thought evangelicals and Mormons were nuts even when I did believe in a god and practiced a religion. I’m sure the feeling was mutual.
    But this is exactly why I think it’s important to view god and religion as separate things. If there is a god and I become convinced of that, I shall remain a “none.”
    God may or may not exist. Religion exists and it is a pain in ass, probably even for all the gods in the universe.
    Finally, years ago I read a research report that claimed the “religion/denomination” group that knew most about world religions is (drum roll) Atheists. That has always made sense to me.

    Liked by 3 people

  16. On the contrary, do you know of a god that doesn’t involve supernatural claims? I do not. (Wouldn’t be much of a god without them, no?) I reject all supernatural claims as none have born up to scrutiny. (And it is not as if the number of such claims has been small or that they haven’t been studied enough.) So, if you are the same, you can reject all gods, out of hand, unless they have no supernatural elements associated with them.

    So, I do not accept the claim that you have to “know a god” before you can reject it. This is a common approach of theists who claim that the god we have rejects is not the One True God, their god and if we would only come to know their god ,,,

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          1. Or panpsychism? A lot of crossover. Regardless of what one believes, I would be in favor of a results based religion. For now we just need to be able to imagine very hard what they imagine, then pretend we know something special. Beliefs, ya know. The gold standard of human excellence heh

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            1. Pattern seeking primates, carefully crafted by natural selection to see things that aren’t there because not seeing things that are there poses a detriment to continued survival

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            2. Maybe. I do think this experience is somehow special. It’s amazing having all this happen, bookended by voids. I doo see a lot of connections though, mostly based on that it’s a cool idea and I like it. Doesn’t make it true though.

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  17. I’ve done a lot of research into other religions/gods. At their base, they are very alike in claims and supposed attributes. Because of this, I’m contented to state that I sure that there are no gods as claimed by humans and for anything more vague, we don’t even know what to look for.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. There is certainly a fundamental thread that leads to belief. Fear is still number one, followed by self doubt instilled by the same others who fail to trust themselves. But who else can you trust?

      Liked by 2 people

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